User talk:Rtol

Tree pages
You seem to know more than most of us about how sensor pages get re-saved. Please add your opinion and suggestions to Help talk:Tree page. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:46, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Nobility
Of course you are right. What I was trying to do was the first step. There were articles called Spanish nobility and articles called nobitily of Russia. What I did was to convert all of them to Nobility of ...... Now all these are consistent and the alternative categories have a message that they should not be used.

The same problem arises at other levels to. We have noble houses of Portugal or Portuguese noble houses. This is the same for royalty and others. I do not know if I will be able to change all of them. But I agree with you that as a general rule we should prefer the type of categories .... of Portugal and avoid the type Portuguese.... It would be impossible to determine exactly the nationality of all these families, whereas the country is not controversial. Are the Bourbon kings of Spain Spanish kings or the Hohenzollern kings of Romania Romanian kings etc? There are many categories which would have to be corrected to create a consistent category system.Afil 23:37, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Good work
Something's not broken. I created a page for a previously undocumented son of Henry VIII of England. On creating his sensor page I was delightedly startled to see:

Order of Charlemagne: 25

Apparent similarity to Charlemagne: 5.9604644775391E-8

Coefficient of Inbreeding: 1.05499e-5

Robin Patterson 02:55, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

WARGS creator
I'm concentrating on William's work for a while. See William Addams Reitwiesner (1954-2010)/sensor, for example. Robin Patterson 11:26, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Migration
Dear Sir,

You seem to know more than I do about the migration template.

It seems to take the information of the country of birth and of death and if they do not coincide, include a category:Migrated from A to B.

There are two problems I am facing. Look at Gabriela Chotek von Chotkov und Vojnin (1868-1933). She was born in Austria-Hungary and died in Czechoslovakia. However the automatically generated category says Category:Migrated from Austria-Hungary to the Czech Republic. I do not know how this was done as the article says nothing about the Czech Republic. Besided this is wrong. The Czech Republic din not exist in 1933. Even if you would accept today's countries, she would have died in Slovakia, not in the Czech Republic. The template does not take into account the information given in the forms or misinterprets them,

A second problem is that I could understand that somebody migrated from Germany to South Africa or the United States or Australia. But there was no migration from Austria Hungary to Czechoslovakia. The people stayed in the same place. It is simply the borders and countries which were changed. A person born and died in Riga did not migrate from the Soviet Union to Latvia, a person born in Strasbourg in 1942 and who died after 1944 din not migrate from Germany to France and so on. There should be a way in which the template is deactivated for such situations which in Europe are quite common.

Could you help in any way?

Regards

What I do not understand is why, in the case I was referring to I indicate that the person died in Czechoslovakia and the generated category says migrated to the Czech Republic. There is no reference to the Czech Republic in the article. Where did this come from? Afil 15:31, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Andrei Filotti Afil 15:08, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

I understand the legal part. What I do not understand is why the template invents a totally new country which is not indicated in the article. The article never mentions the Czech Republic. Where does the template take that information from and why does it invent information not available in the article.Afil 15:38, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I finally understood why this occurs. I will correct the redirect which is wrong. The Czech Republic is only part of the former Czechoslovakia. Afil 15:45, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

The solution which I adopted was to move the migration template, which was included in the showfacts biography template, so that it becomes an independent template, separate from the biography. This is done automatically in the general template for the people's form.

Normally, this does not change anything and the system works just as before. If however there is no migration because of changes of boundaries, of death during wars or vacations or whatever other reasons, then the migration template can be deleted from the article. As a result, the rest of the biography does not change but the migration part is not implemented.

I can revert to the previous case if you have any objections, but it seems to give a possibility of dealing with the problem. Afil 19:06, February 15, 2011 (UTC)

It may work if the locality is the same, which covers some cases. But look at Marie Henriette Chotek von Chotkov und Vojnin (1880-1964) where again I get an incorrect category. If you do not accept a separate template, then you can include a switch which could activate or prevent the activation of the migration part in the biography. The history of Europe is too complicated to be solved only by checking the name of the birth and death locality. There is the possibility of eliminating completely the biography section and to write your own text for the cases where migration is not acceptable. But I find this solution rather strange.

It would also be possible to eliminate completely the migration part until somebody solves the problem of the servers. But I have difficulties understanding why we should keep a system which gives the wrong results. Afil 03:50, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

Help Creating a new Wiki
Hi just to let you know i tryed to get rid of the links from wikipedia but my computers having a problem. I've asked Robin Patterson about it but he doesent know what links he needs to get rid of. So can you help me get rid of some links from List of Astronomers. Just to let you know can you help me create a wiki for me because my computer is keeps on going to a Channel PHP. and to advertise it to get other users to go on it, Its called Space Wiki and its about anyone can edit and learn about Planets, Stars and all other Galaxys. And can you get rid of list of Inventors Please. The website is called anything that you call it.

Thanks that will be a great help Quinser's 7:00 16/02/2011

Ermengarde d'Anjou
I understand your recent undo about Ermengarde d'Anjou :

In fact, I believe there were at least 2 Ermengarde d'Anjou ; the second (daughter of Foulques Réchin, Count of Anjou) has been married in 1093 to Alain Fergent, Duke of Brittany and was the mother of future Duke Conan III. She was the sister of Foulques Nerra (Foulques V d'Anjou, King of Jerusalem) and sailed to Palestina for many years nearby him. She returned to Brittany and probably died there in 1147.

I propose to name her "Ermengarde 2d of Anjou, Duchess of Brittany"?

82.126.45.89 09:45, February 21, 2011 (UTC)


 * Please login.
 * Please provide evidence. rtol 09:47, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Ermengarde d'Anjou (c1068-1146) is the daughter of Fulk IV, sister of Fulk V/I, wife of Alain Fergent of Brittany and mother of Conan III of Brittany. rtol 11:21, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

There is also Ermengarde of Anjou (bef967-), daughter of Geoffrey I of Anjou, wife of Conan I of Rennes, and mother of Geoffrey I of Brittany. rtol 11:25, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Questions
I do not understand whats genealogy mean, Does it mean changing the name of the article? Do you know how to put me on User English and User Portugues?

Quinser's 7:09 23rd February 2011

Complaning about my articles
I cheked Rolf Harris comments I didn't find it. Im getting a bit upset about you and Robin Patterson complaining to me that every article seems always wrong all the time. I try everything that I can to help improve it but I have a really busy life in my hands.

Quinser's 08:34 24th February 2011

HRE
Forum:Holy_Roman_Empire should interest you. (I think Thurstan has already helped with formatting.) Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 08:12, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Brunswick von Korompa
The information is taken from "Genealogisches Taschenbuch der Adeligen Hausern Oesterreichs". The Braunschweig family has many branches. The one I am talking about seems to have emerged about 1598 from a certain Johann Brunczvik. The branch I am working with is presented only either as Brunswick or Brunswik or sometimes Brunsvik or Brunszvik. Korompa is sometimes presented under the german name of Krompach. So it could also be Brunswik von Krompach. Ortography was not very strict in those days. However the Taschenbuch does not indicate any relationship to the Braunschweig family which was based in Germany while this one was based in Austria and today's Slovakia.

Showfacts_descendants#Problem_with_1001_characters
Please offer an opinion on http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Template_talk:Showfacts_descendants#Problem_with_1001_characters. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 04:49, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Titles
Please remind me where it was agreed that Prince William of Wales (1982)/sensor was wrong. And you could tell me why you didn't fix it when editing recently. I think "John of England" should be reserved for the king; too confusing if princes can be called that too. But fixing our SMW is much more important than shortening page names. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 01:59, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

SMW progress
Any of us can ask Wikia not to fiddle with SMW without seeking feedback first. But:
 * 1) You and I and most other FP users probably don't understand the software enough to compose useful feedback
 * 2) Wikia never promised to support SMW, so we should be grateful for what we get, without pushing them. If they had to consult us before trying any possible improvements they might just not bother.

I can see that it's messed up again. David Cameron's sensor page looks a bit like this (except that this pasting expands some of the buttons, and I've removed some of the duplication caused by your stubborn re-insertion of the tabs thing at the top of Sensor):

Main Ancestors

Special:formedit/Sensor page/David William Donald Cameron (1966)/sensor

To add new tabs: " " cannot be used as a page name in this wiki. " " cannot be used as a page name in this wiki. " " cannot be used as a page name in this wiki. " " cannot be used as a page name in this wiki. " " cannot be used as a page name in this wiki. " " cannot be used as a page name in this wiki.

(the above are just square green buttons with colons in them. about 12 blank lines here)

0 Coefficient of Inbreeding: 0 ៛;1;→;David William Donald Cameron (1966);₪

→;David William Donald Cameron (1966);1

(seven blank lines)

→;David William Donald Cameron (1966);1

Some time in the last few weeks when I looked for his OoC, it certainly showed it. But it didn't show any hint of the ancestors or descendants, which I presume those last lines are. Progress?

Maybe we can reasonably ask staff to post a message on every active user's page before they change anything.

I'm thinking of starting a page or even a wiki where Wikia's users of SMW can get together to discuss the whole thing.

--- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 00:21, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Regarding that last sentence, there's no need for a separate wiki. See http://smwtest.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:This_site_could_be_useful&t=20110319033909. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 03:56, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the report of contact with Wikia. I've added a bit to a relevant forum. No significant (if any) improvement in sensor pages, though it may be a good sign that your recent creation has ancestors going to grandparent: "៛;1;→;Othelhildis von Katlenburg (c1055-c1102);₪, ៛;2;→;Dietrich I. von Katlenburg (?-1056);₪, ៛;3;→;Bertrade van Holland (?-?);₪". (I trust that you are planning to remove those question-marks soon!!) I hadn't been able to see any facts for months. Thurstan said he could see them by not using the official skin, which is OK for users who choose to use another skin but not a good situation to invite newcomers into. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 07:16, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Marking edits as "minor"
When Thurstan and I do routine things such as creating or editing categories or sensor or tree or descendant pages, we generally mark them as minor. That greatly reduces the work necessary for those of us who fairly often go through recent changes (hiding minor edits) looking for vandals or the better sort of newbie. I would appreciate the same from you if it's not too much bother. One extra click is usually all it needs. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 16:24, April 22, 2011 (UTC)

Transliteration of Russian names
Corrections you made lately raise the question of how Russian names should be transliterated. A consensus on a general rule on how these names are to be spelled in Familypedia should be found. The worst would be to have no rule at all.


 * When the final letter is i or y Wikipedia usually applies y such as in Vasily, Dmitry, Alexey, Andrey etc. You seem to prefer I, at least taking into account your correction of Vasili III of Russia (1479-1533). I also prefer the i and would use the spelling Vasili, Dmitri, Alexei, Andrei etc.


 * When the first letter is E Wikipedia uses Ye while Wikifamily uses E (for instance in Ekaterina Pavlovna Romanova (1788-1819). That should imply that all names such as Evgeni, Ekaterina, Elena, Elisaveta should be written this way and not Yevgeny, Yekaterina, Yelena, Yelisaveta as Wikipedia does, I also prefer E.

It would be easier if an agreement could be reached now before more we have more entries on Russian personalities and would have to correct the names.

Regardless of my preferences, I would adopt any solution, but think that we should be consistent, as far as possible, Afil 01:17, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

Popes
Popes have their personal names and their papal names. In Wikipedia the articles use the papal name for articles, Judging by the article Frederick de Lorraine (c1020-1058) where you prefered this to Pope Stephen IX, you consider that in Familypedia the personal names should be used for the titles of the articles. I was just trying to enter the data for Pope Paul II (not because of my passion for Pope Paul, but simply because he is mentioned in the article on Zoe Palaiologina (c1448-1503) and I wanted to make the link. Should the title of this article be Pietro Barbo (1417-1471) - with the appropriate redirect - or vice-versa,

Again I do not want to advocate any of these solutions but consider that a unified solution should be applied for all articles.

RegardsAfil 01:17, May 20, 2011 (UTC)

Iziaslav II of Kiev (c1097-1154)
There is an error in Wikipedia regarding Iziaslav II. There is no principality of Pereyaslav and he was not prince of Pereyaslavl as indicated in en:Wikipedia. He was twice prince of Pereyaslavl (actually Pereyaslavl-Khmelnytsky - as there was also another principality of Pereyaslavl-Zalessky).

Actually, the name in Wikipedia is also incorrect. It should be Izyaslav which is the correct translitteration of Изяслав (which io actually applied by Wikipedia for some of the other Izyaslav-s such as Izyaslav of Polotsk).

Afil 21:10, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. Having a discussion on a subject makes the activity more pleasant, makes you feel less alone. And it is really difficult to find an interlocutor who has the slightest interest in the Rurikids. Afil 22:44, June 15, 2011 (UTC)

Nevsky
We need again to coordinate. There is an article Aleksandr Nevsky (1220-1263) about the same Alexander Nevsky. I am not sure about the rules, if names are translated or not and when. I would not translate Queen Isabella of Castille into Elisabeth of Castille (even if in Spain Queen Elisabeth of England is called Reyna Isabella) and also not call Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent - Solomon the Magnificent. But in other cases I am less convinced. Do you call Kaiser Wilhelm - Emperor William of Germany? Afil 06:11, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia:Books
Sorry to bother you again. I am at present attempting to put some order into the Wikia Categories and basically integrating the categories which are orphan, i.e. not linked to other categories of the Wikia system.

A long time ago you created two articles which are included into the category Wikipedia:Books. Since this type of categories have been moved to Wikia categories. In this case the two articles are related to your user pages. What would you like me to do about this category? Ar present, none of the links indicated works and none leads to any other article. Afil 20:29, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Coefficients
I've seen at least one new sensor page saying "Coefficient of inbreeding: 0.40625 " for someone whose parents do not have their own pages. Can you explain that? -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 08:50, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

---Thanks for the reply. Maybe we can turn it off (if it's easy, such as commenting-out in the template) until Wikia fixes whatever? -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:21, July 12, 2011 (UTC)

Wladislaw II
We have two similar articles Władysław II Jagiełło (c1362-1434) (who was king of Poland) and Wladyslaw II Jagiellon (1456-1516) (who was king of Hungary besides other titles - Bohemia, Croatia etc. though II refers only to Hungary, not to the other kingdoms). In order to avoid confusion, as both have the same first and last name, I would suggest that the first article be called Wladyslaw II of Poland, and the second Wladyslaw II of Hungary.

Both Wladislaw and Jagiello is spelled differently in different countries. Versions such as Vladislav, Ladislaus and others can be found in history books. As both were basically born in Poland, I used the original spelling with the accents as in Polish: Władysław II Jagiełło. However, even if this would slightly bend the rules, I would suggest that we use Wladyslaw in both cases and Jagiellon as the family name, without the Polish ł.

In case you agree I will make the required changes. I am also open to other suggestions which would avoid confusions.Afil 04:39, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

By the way, I just noticed that there is a redundancy in the articles Alexander Jagiellon (1461-1506) and Alexander of Poland (1461-1506). Afil 04:48, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

Hello
Hi. I'm new to the wiki, but it looks like you aren't. By any chance, do you know how to add a picture correctly to a form? It never works for me.

Thanks =)

-User:Grovyle4life/Sig

(Sorry if that didn't work. Here's a link to my page: G4 G4 G4♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫Happy People! 15:54, August 27, 2011 (UTC))

Thanks You!
Thanks so much for the help! I just joined, but I want to be as useful as possible, and make less mistakes to not waste all of your time.

-G4 G4 G4♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫Happy People! 16:34, August 27, 2011 (UTC)

Distinction
I notice that you have created Friedrich I. vom Pongau (c1031-1071) and Sieghard IX. von Pongau (c1063-1104), both with surname Vom Pongau. Did you really mean "vom" and "von": if so, what is the distinction? Thurstan 01:22, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Similar Names Template
Hello, I have been adding some of my ralatives and am at the point where I have a few people with similar names. I read the information on creating disambiguation pages, but I think I'm missing something. You were the creator of the template, so I am sending this question to you. I hope that's okay.

Here are the pages I created: Joannes Ockenfels and Peter Ockenfels.

When I compare them to the example, Mary Brown I get an error in the middle that she does not. Are the 'info' pages obsolete? should I just delete that section? Or do I need to create tabs before that section will work?

Thanks, Lanica 16:50, September 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Followup - Is there a way to include different spellings of similar names in one table? John/Johann/Johanne/Joannes? I've just added a new table for each, but I'd love to be able to compare them all in one sortable table. Is there a way I can do that? Lanica 20:42, September 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * Excellent! That's exactly it! It may be clumsy (to use your word) but it works, and that's what matters. I think "John" was a perfect name to use for the example, too. It shows how versatile a concept can be in cases like this. Thanks for all your help, Lanica 12:36, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * I just tried to replicate your Concept:John in Concept:Peter but get this message:

"The concept 'Peter' can not be used at the moment, since the wiki configuration requires it to be computed off-line. If the problem does not go away after some time, ask your site administrator to make this concept available."
 * Will this happen on it's own somehow or is it something I can do? I'm willing to learn if you want to teach me. I started playing with concepts a while back in relation to census, but got confused and wondered off. I have a low level of basic knowledge. Lanica 12:51, September 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks again. Sorry, I didn't realize you were on, I'll let thinks rest a while before 'talking' in the future. :) Lanica 13:01, September 28, 2011 (UTC)

Show people
Some time ago you included template Show people in the articles for various cities. I don't know if you continued or not, but I consider it a useful exercise and added the template to various articles on cities.

What happens, is that if the article is long, the information is included at the end of the article, which makes the information difficult to find. See for instance article Paris. In some cases of long articles, I am even not able to edit the article, for instance Moscow (I wonder if this is just my computer, or if it is a general problem, for instance, if you are able or not to edit anything in articles London or Moscow.

Would it be a better solution if we adopted separate subpages of settlement articles in which the information of the Show people template would be stored (similar with what is done for the sensor or tree pages of biographies) and if so, what should be done. Is a discussion in a Forum necessary (even though there are few participants in Fora, if any) Afil 02:12, February 12, 2012 (UTC)

I like the new name despite the extra length. But there are now two of my requests on the talk page, and the documentation needs to catch up with the new name. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:12, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

As there are at least four of us interested in this template, I'm in favour of tossing ideas around in a forum devoted to it (or as a continuation on the template's talk page). I agree that the lists of people should be more prominent on this people-based wiki than the list of prominent citizens on Wikipedia is (usually just before the acknowledgments and references near the bottom). But Thurstan doesn't like the tenplate at the top. A consensus should be sought. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:12, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

There are several pages which use this facility. Robin has created the page Hoorn/births, marriages, and deaths, you have created the Moscow/Familypedia. Robin's solution is rather long. Familypedia gives little information on the contents of the page. I have created Trnava/BDM (which uses the abreviation which Robin used for the category of his page.

The title of the page - on which a consensus has to be reached - is however not the only issue. If there are subpages for a certain article, a bar such as the one used for person (Main/Tree/Biography/...]] is required, otherwise nobody will know where such pages exist. I have tried to create such a bar but have been unsuccessful. You can see these attempts in Trnava, where I have created Trnava/BDM and Trnava/sensor (which recognizes the Trnava/BDM but does still not link to Trnava, even though I have included the globals template in the Trnava article and habe included the BDM in the string list - these can be deleted if they are incorrect). Regardless of the title of the article, do you have any clue on what is required to create this bar?

RegardsAfil 01:59, February 14, 2012 (UTC)