Talk:Sancta Columba/Santa Coloma (English version)

Welcome Back! FYI, Robin is on a 3 week holiday. Bill 23:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Gidday! You have both probably seen that I have been able to look in for some days now. Back to full (office PC) activity on Monday 8 Jan. Comments on various things below (using three colons to indent unless clearer some other way), adding more headings where possible so that I and others can follow the discussion better and can add comments in the right places.
 * Thank you for putting this on the Talk page!
 * Robin Patterson 12:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Corrections in Translation
Hi Bill. Thank a lot again for your help. I see that sometimes my expressions lead to confusion. Thanks for your patience. Please, check my modifications over yours again.

Regarding your comment "There's a thought missing here. Why is this being said? This is set up as a contradistinction relative to Sainte Columbe members belonging to the Knights of Santiago, but its not clear why a possible connection to the Knights of Malta and Templar is being pointed to".


 * Right, the phrase is not clear. Regarding Templars, this was only a speculation based on the fact that the cult to Santa Coloma was Templar.  I just deleted the paragraph until I have any evidence.   Several Sainte Colombe were Knight of Malta and some Santa Coloma were Knights of Santiago (St. James), but there is no relationship in this. This is only to mention that fact. I need to add the references yet.  --Tasc 12:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If in doubt about something, please just "comment it out" so that it is easier to recover when ready. (That may be what you did, but "deleted" has more than one meaning.) Robin Patterson 12:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Bill. I have made several changes in the paragraph order to improve the text. Please, take a look. --Tasc 13:29, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Meaning
The Santa Coloma surname is a toponymic, derived from areas named after Saint Columba (Sanctae Columbae in Latin), viz: “de Santa Coloma”, "de Sainte Colombe", "a Sancta Columba", "de Sancta Columba", "di Santa Colomba", etc, meaning "from the place of Saint Columba".

The word "Columba" may be translated as "a white pigeon", the symbol of peace. Some branches of the Santa Coloma family incorporate a pigeon bearing an olive branch within their coat of arms. . A white pigeon is also used in some portions of Italy as a symbol of the cult to Saint Columba (Santa Colomba (IT)). This has led to some confusion between the cult of Saint Columba and the cult of the Holy Spirit (Espíritu Santo).

"Cult"

 * Is this the proper use of the term "cult"? In English the use of this word has perjorative connotations.


 * Bill, I did not know that cult has a pejorative connotation. Which should be the correct word instead of cult? Devotion?


 * I'm not sure what the right term would be, but in English the term is not complimentary...possibly accurate strictu sensu, but not complimentary. It brings up images of wild-eyed fanatics, and people with a slavish veneration of a messianic leader---the Jonestown massacre is the type of thing that comes to mind when the term is used in English---either that or something out of Indiana Jones.
 * I agree with Bill there! "Devotion to" is probably best. Robin Patterson 12:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Right. What about devotion to Sancta Columba and veneration to Holy Spirit? I think those could be the correct words.--Tasc 23:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Veneration of"; probably OK. Robin Patterson 12:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps "religious order" would approximate the word you are looking for; That might apply to the Knights Templar, etc.  Not certain about Espíritu Santo...


 * Not really. We will need to change that phrase, I think.--Tasc 23:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Toponymic - discussing places
Another subject: Santa Coloma is toponymic. However, not from every place named Santa Coloma. --Tasc 23:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think you are saying that there are a number of places named "Santa Coloma" or variants, but probably only one lent its name to the Santa Coloma family.  I'll adjust accordingly


 * Right! Your phrase is now just want I want to say.

You will see that discussion later in the manuscript, when considering the origin. It is possible that some came from different places, but most genealogists believe that all are the same family, coming from one place, not yet well established (a town in Catalonia is postulated so far, but think some town in France is more likely). So I would change the initial phrase a little. --Tasc 23:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Copying to Talk page
''Bill, let's move this to the discussion page. OK? I will copy all this to the discussion page and leave [on the article page] a corrected version to see if you agree. Thanks a lot for your help. It is going to be a long task for you, which I appreciate very much. --Tasc 23:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)''


 * My pleasure. I'll work on this piecemeal.  In part because I need to see where some of this is going in order to better understand what's being said. Bill 23:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I wish to be able to translate all soon, but I have been working more than 24 hours in few days (I have started the summer vacations, of course) in both version and I am exhausted already.--Tasc 23:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * One of the nice things about genealogy is that as a rule, there's never any rush. And that's especially true of the Wiki---we have all the time in the world.  What we don't complete today, will still be here for us to work on tomorrow. Bill 23:36, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

"Meaning" section

 * Right. I am always anxious and this is not good. Please, see the modification that I have introduced to the last paragraph of Meaning.  I think that now is much clear.


 * You know, many of the histories that you will read here were found very recently, as the document that mention Ralph de Sancta Columba in England, Bonafusus of Sancta Columba in France (the first patent in history!), the history of Nessie and Saint Columba (although he is a different Saint) and the legend of Artur (Excalibur/scalibur) and its similarity with the legend of Saint Columba, among other funny histories. I think that add some mystery the history of how this last name was born and its migration to different countries.  I hope other readers will enjoy it as much as I do.  Regards in this New Year 2007. --Tasc 23:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

COA
I've made some additional changes dealing with the COA questions. You'll need to check that to be sure I've captured what your intent was. '''I've left an annotation in red in the text to indicate a question. That approach, by the way, is common on the wikipedia. It makes it easier to see where a problem lies, and once adjusted, is easily eliminated.''' Bill 03:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I Agree and your modifications were very appropiate. I have changed the word "cult" by "devotion", which is the right word. I will do the same in the Spanish version later. --Tasc 11:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Better editor?
Bill, I have a better editor in Wikipedia (much more commands). Do you know how to load it here?--Tasc 11:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Think this would be a Robin Patterson Question. The EditMenu for WIKIA is not compatible with my browser, so I usually just use straigth out HTML edits for formating purposes. Bill 14:02, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Article is uncomfortably long
"This page is 202 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections."

(Whether or not there are problems editing, some of our browsers take "for ever" to open the page.) I really do urge you to split the page. I think I already showed how easy it is, a few weeks ago. Replace a long section with a link to the new page; readers who then want to refer up and down can just open all in new windows - switching is quicker than scrolling.

Splitting it will also make this talk page less likely to become unmanageable.

Robin Patterson 12:29, 3 January 2007 (UTC)