Forum:Dutch patronyms are not given names


 * "Surname =van Hodenpijl"
 * Given name =Alijd
 * "Given name =Alijd Jansdr": NO, "Jansdr" isn't a given name, this is a patronym, adjustment telling who is the father.

Fred Bergman 15:22, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * I see. Peru has something like that. Scandinavians have the patronym (e.g. Jansdotter) as a surname. Dutch have it as an extra in front of the family name, not "given" in the sense of being something the parents could choose, but fixed, just as the surname is fixed. OK, we will have to decide what we do with a Dutch patronym:
 * include it in the definition of "given name" (which Fred might not welcome, but which is not too different from what other traditions do for middle names)
 * include it in the definition of "surname" (which has logic, because it forms part of a fixed expression meaning "daughter of Jan van Hodenpijl", but which would complicate alphabetical order)
 * create a separately coded entity for it (which would involve some serious programming)
 * — Robin Patterson (Talk) 03:57, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

(The above was started on Robin's talk page but belongs here.)