User talk:Rtol

Approximate dates - decades, etc
Please see what you think of this: http://genealogy.wikia.com/index.php?title=Category:Died_in_c1794&action=history

Maybe the subject could be put on a forum to see who agrees with either method and what range of other ideas there may be. Then we might devise a template for an agreed structure, to save a lot of typing time.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:56, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * This works for c1794. It does not work for c1790, or bef1790, or aft1799. That's why I put them in with the actual year.


 * A template is a good idea, and easy to do. Rtol 14:18, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * 1790 is the next step in complexity. I suggest that years ending in 9, 0, or 1 go into both decade categories. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:27, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * See Template:B-c. This puts people born around 1580 in a subcategory of born in 1580. The alternative is to convert the parameter into a string, replace the last digit with a zero; unless the last digit is a 0 or a 9, in which case it needs to be place in two subcategories involving the second to last digit as well ... Too complicated for me. Rtol 09:50, 22 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the template. Please have a look at it and go to its documentation, where I have put a query in a comment. Please also see Forum:Approximate dates - decades, etc, where I appeal for help with possible extra complexity. AMK152 and Thurstan are among those who may be able to help. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:21, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Template:Tabs person
I TRUST that you have achieved a fair degree of competence with complex templates. http://genealogy.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template%3ATabs_person&diff=226119&oldid=202861

Not looking very hard at what you achieved there, I can only guess that it's to do with subpages. Have you checked the discussions about tabs templates?

Best of luck!

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:13, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Robin,

I learned from breaking Thurstan's pages, and tested this on a number of pages. Seems to be faultless. Rtol 18:10, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Dutch (and Russian?)
I have had a look at a little of today's first newcomer's work and your message to that person. At age 68 I don't think I can learn enough Dutch fast enough to help!

Time for some of us to re-read pages such as: I'll have to see if User:Phlox can help with the Russian.
 * Genealogy:Language policy,
 * Genealogy:Multilingual articles,
 * Genealogy:Multilingual messages,
 * Genealogy:Multilingual messages2, and
 * Genealogy:Multilingual messages3.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:01, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Translation, please
I'm copying "person" articles from the Peize Wikia. Most of them have a template that reads: "Bestandsgegevens: ap van der kaap, peize." What does that mean? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Quality
See:
 * Douglas Atkinson (Abt 1850-1915)
 * Lilian May Green (1892-?)
 * Richard Cromwell (not checked authorship but I have my suspicions)
 * Name (Birth-Death)

May be plenty more of similar unappealing quality! Some can probably be improved with a little work on "What links here". The same would apply to most of the others you were talking about, I expect, because of their likely origins.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:46, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Routines
Er zijn twee bots: Phlox en AMK152. Een handeling als ACHTERNAAM vervangen door Achternaam kan het best aan hen overgelaten worden. Rtol 04:39, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * prettig te horen ! ik heb steeds synchronisatieproblemen als ik person en info verander, dan matchen ze ineens niet meer en kan een juiste naam waarvan wordt aangegeven dat die niet zou bestaan niet alsnog veranderen Fred Bergman 06:16, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

GEDCOM UPLOAD
is het mogelijk hier een gedcom bestand te uploaden, zodat ik niet elke persoon met de hand moet invoeren ? Bergsmit 20:58, 29 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Very good question. Some contributors have done it. See Help talk:Loading Gedcoms. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:35, 29 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Now you say Fred has mastered it!!! (Not an April Fool prank?) I hope you and he don't go overboard too fast, because much of the format that User:Yewenyi had is out of date and would not fit in well with our current page styles. Please continue discussion on Help talk:Loading Gedcoms and one of us can post an alert to the mailing list. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:30, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Bij nader inzien is mijn mislukte upload helemaal niet mislukt. Het is juist gelukt om een gedcom te uploaden. Het gevaar waarvoor gewaarschuwd wordt is helemaal geen gevaar. Een gedcom is een ander soort textbestand en heeft geen actief programma. Omdat Familypedia geen gedcom viewer heeft geinstalleerd werd het bestand niet herkend. Zelf heb ik een gedviewer, die gelijk mogelijke dubbels in een bestand opspoort van Mudcreek. Er bestaan ook programma's die dubbels opsporen, die je dan zelf daarna kunt samenvoegen. Wat er nu zou moeten gebeuren is dat er op Familypedia een dergelijk programma wordt geïnstalleerd. Groeten, Fred Bergman 06:50, 6 April 2009 (UTC).

Inmiddels kunnen gedcom files niet alleen zeer makkelijk worden geexporteerd naar Familypedia, ze kunnen nu ook worden geopend en gelezen. Eerst op de link klikken, vervolgens in het waarschuwingsscherm nogmaals op de link klikken, dan is de file open. Daarna kun je op dit moment niets meer en dat is jammer. De volgende stap is namelijk de file te bewerken, dus bijvoorbeeld personen er uit halen, namen veranderen, data veranderen of verwijderen, noem maar op. Daarna kun je de gereedgemaakte file met de Gedcom to Wiki Format Generator tot Person Pages kunnen converteren, maar ondanks de beschrijving in de help file kan ik deze generator bij Familypedia niet vinden. Wat denk je, zou dit door iemand met voldoende wiki-kennis makkelijk te realiseren zijn. Ik vond een boodschap van een wiki deskundige (Hi Phlox. ged. files are now enabled here. Please let me know if you have any problems. Regards -- User:Sannse 13:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC) ), adviseer jij, die in te schakelen? Fred Bergman 14:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

GEDCOM op Familypedia

 * 1) [[Image:Pedigree helena0debie.ged]]
 * 2) [[Image:Parenteel Hendrik SMIT90112 .ged]] --Fred Bergman 14:08, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Stap 2
1.In de NetBeans IDE, :done Fred Bergman 2.click "file" (links boven) :done Fred Bergman 3.en dan "open project" :done Fred Bergman 4.en zoek dan naar "Wiki Format Generator",Click "open project" om te bevestigen. :done Fred Bergman 5.Als dat gelukt is, click "run" (ergens in the het midden, boven), en dan ("build project" of) op de hamer.:nu heb ik het probleem: The Wiki Format Generator has a broken platform reference, you have to fix the broken reference and invoke the action again close Fred Bergman 6.Als dat lukt, dan "run" 7.en "run project" (of de driehoek).
 * t/m 4.open project en bevestigen gaat het goed, dan wordt niet gevonden:

platform Java_HotSpot_TM_Cliënt_VM_1.5.0_04-b05

het gaat t/m de eerste keer run, maar dan krijg ik de boodschap Broken platform java hotspot, repair this first

We komen er wel: Rtol 12:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC) (DONE!) Fred Bergman
 * 1) Click "run",
 * 2) "set project configuration",
 * 3) "customize"
 * 4) Dan "libraries",
 * 5) "add JAR/Folder"
 * 6) en dan op zoek naar gdbi-13-jll.jar


 * 1.De andere staat in "manage platforms",
 * 2.en dan voor "JDK 1.6 (default)"
 * 3"sources" moet iets als zijn "c:\program files\java\jdk1.6.0_13\src.zip";
 * 4kun je toevoegen met "add JAR/folder".

Rtol 12:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

ik heb "c:\program files\java\jdk1.6.0_13\src.zip" gevonden en unzipped, maar het lukt me niet om hem bij de gedcom generator te importeren Fred Bergman 20:49, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Ik doe het volgende:
 * 1. open NetBeans IDE 6.0.1
 * 2. dan komt direct een POP-UP "Reference Problems" -> Resolve Reference Problems; close
 * 3. dan in het scherm Wiki Format Generator in rode kleur;
 * (4. dit selecteer ik en kies customize, dan krijg ik Project properties, zoals ook in de help gedcom page staat
 * 5.dan druk io ok en krijg weer punt 3: Wiki Format Generator in rode kleur;)
 * 4a.file > open project > (2 mogelijkheden: src en wiki format generator) ik kies wfg > terug bij af;
 * 4b.file > wfg properties > libraries > Missing platforms Java HotSpot enz > manage platforms > Java Platform Manager > JDK 1.6 (Default) > souces > C:\........ ..... \src.zip


 * en dan kom ik geen stap meer verder ! advies ?

Gedcoms: We zijn er bijna

 * 1) In de NetBeans IDE, "run", "set project configuration", "customize"
 * 2) In "libraries" moet het "java platform" "JDK 1.6" of "JDK 1.6 (default)" zijn.
 * 3) Als niet, dan click "Manage platforms", dan click "sources" en "add JAR/folder" -- bij mij heet het juiste bestand "C:\Program Files\Java\jdk1.6.0_13\src.zip"

Rtol 06:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Nog 3 stappen

 * 1) In NetBeans IDE, click op "wikiformatgenerator",
 * dan via uitrolmenu "Source Packages
 * dan via uitrolmenu "wikiformatgenerator",
 * dan via uitrolmenu"MainApplication.java"

In NetBeans IDE, click op "run", "build project". De volgende keer kun je het programma runnen zonder al dat NetBeans gedoe, van c:\wiki\wiki format generator\dist\wiki_format_generator.jar Het probleem dat je hebt lijkt me dat je gedcom file te groot is ... Probeer het eerst met een kleintje. Rtol 08:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) en vervang alle tekst met de text in Forum:Gedcom bot (MainApplication.java). Kopieer de tekst uit het edit scherm. Click "file" "save"
 * 2) Doe hetzelfde voor WikiLocation.java

Ik ga het uitproberen, inderdaad Marie is 38kb, terwijl alle andere in die map 2, 3 of 4 kb zijn. Ik neem de 2 kb Hugo Christoph von Passow.ged --Fred Bergman 08:39, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * wikilocation java ging makkelijk, maar MainApplicationJava krijg ik niet leeg, moet ik in gedeelten downloaden ? Fred Bergman 11:17, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Te groot?
Lukt shift + pijltje-naar-beneden niet? Rtol 11:21, 19 April 2009 (UTC) ik heb de hele tekst al op de juiste plaats geplakt, maar de oude tekst blijft voor een deel onverwijderbaar. Fred Bergman 11:56, 19 April 2009 (UTC) dan wordt wel alles geselecteerd maar cut and paste werkt niet, paste verschijnt niet in het menu. ik kan wel delen verwijderen en delen plakken, maar dit laatste krijg ik niet weg

GEDCOM upload - page names
Richard, I'm not sure if you've seen http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Standardising_page_names_for_individuals#Needs_more_certainty_for_GEDCOM_upload but it has reached the stage where your input may be particularly valuable. "Critical", almost, though not necessarily in both senses of that word. The missing year numbers dominate the discussion at present, but the capitalisation of surnames is in the same area.

Just when you have a "free" 10 minutes! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:18, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

The other point on which we need the programmer to comment is around http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Standardising_page_names_for_individuals#Checking_for_duplicates - maybe also the paragraph before it but that one and the one following: our standards should be based on what your program can do about possible duplicates. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 04:56, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Hallo Richard ! Ik heb juist een paar honderd SURNAMES veranderd naar Surnames, omdat mijn database in principe SURNAMES heeft voor familieleden en verwanten, en Surnames voor losse vogels, terwijl mij hier werd medegedeeld dat de standaard hier is Surnames. Zodra de standaard SURNAMES wordt, wat doen we dan met de Patroniemen of PATRONIEMEN, afhankelijk van de al (Patroniem) of niet bekende (PATRONIEM) SURNAME ? Fred Bergman 06:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Weespagina's
Ik probeer mijn weespagina's te voorzien van parents, spouse en child1 en doe dat aan de hand van de special page weespagina's. Helaas komen ze daar niet allemaal op voor en val ik terug op mijn controlelijsten. Weet jij of de special page weespagina's direct wordt bijgewerkt of te hooi en te gras? Fred Bergman 06:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

BUILD FAILED (total time: 2 seconds)
Build unsuccessfulHet lijkt erop dat je GBDI bibliotheek weer verdwenen is.

Click "run", "project configuration", "customize"

Click "libraries", "compile". Vind je daar "../GDBI/gdbi-13-jll.jar"? Als niet, gebruik dan "add JAR/folder".

Als wel, staat er een vinkje voor "Build projects on classpath"? Rtol 05:39, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Alles staat er, dus dit is het niet Fred Bergman 06:21, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Ik begrijp er niets van Kun je eerst "build" proberen voordat je "run" doet? (Dit zou niet uit moeten maken.)

Welke bestanden staan er in de folder GDBI behalve gdbi-13-jll.jar? Rtol 07:32, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Wiki to gedcom, weer fout
Hi Fred,

Ik krijg exact dezelfde foutmelding als jij als ik de GBDI bibliotheek verwijder; en alles gaat weer goed als ik hem terugzet.

Dus, in NetBeans IDE, Run, Set Project Configuration, Customize, Libraries, Compile, select /GDBI/gdbi-13-jll.jar, click remove.

Click OK.

Dan, click op het icoon Hamer + Bezem.

Dan Run, Set Project Configuration, Customize, Libraries, Compile, click Add JAR/folder en selecteer /GDBI/gdbi-13-jll, click open, click ok.

Dan, click of het icoon Hamer.

Dat moet gewoon goed gaan. rtol 20:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Info bot
Kun jij niet een bot uit je trucendoos toveren, die op het moment van nieuw aanmaken van een infopage, automatisch aan de hand van de pagenaam, zowel de givenname, de surname, de fullname, het geboortejaar als het sterfjaar op de juiste plaats in de infopage zet ? Het moet toch ook mogelijk zijn op het moment dat de infopage nieuw is aangemaakt met 1 click op de dan nog rode articlename een nieuwe personpage aan te maken MET de standaard templates ? Fred Bergman 16:11, 25 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Fred, wat jij beschrijft kan ik wel maar mag ik niet. Daar gaat de host over. Wat wel kan, is dat je op een pagina of  typt en verder niets. (In het eerste geval kun je dingen toevoegen, in het tweede geval niet.
 * Als het je niet aanstaat wat er dan verschijnt, dan kun je je eigen Template:St1 maken door Template:St te zoeken, de inhoud te kopieren, en dan Template:St1 aanmaken. rtol 19:08, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I made a new template according the standard, see Template:St1 Fred Bergman 14:34, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Ik begin nu met de namen te standaardiseren en dan klik ik op de rode standaardnaam en krijg dan blanco personpage, daarop zet ik jouw template, save deze en krijg dan infopage bestaat niet, dan klik ik in de personpage op edit van het infovenster en krijg dan een blanco infopage met de juiste naam erboven. Dan zou ik een template willen plakken die de standaard infopage geeft met de gegevens die ik hierboven noemde. Kun je dat makkelijk maken ? Fred Bergman 06:38, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * wie is de host van deze site, is dat Robin? Fred Bergman 19:14, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Robin is een sysop -- system operator. Heeft meer rechten dan jij en ik, maar een tekst automatisch laten verschijnen gaat zijn macht te boven. Daar gaat Wikia over. Robin kan wel met onze vertegenwoordiger daar praten. rtol 19:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ik vond deze 3 botters, waarvan 2 toch gewoon users zijn hier, of maken die geen bots, maar implementeren zie die alleen maar (de werkpaarden) ? Fred Bergman 20:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
 * 1. AMK152Bot (Overleg) · (Bijdragen) · (Edit stats) bot,
 * 2. PhloxBot (Overleg) · (Bijdragen) · (Edit stats) bot,
 * 3. WikiaBot (Overleg) · (Bijdragen) · (Edit stats) staff, bot,

I asked Robin to allow the making of such a bot Fred Bergman 14:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Hello Robin, Richard and I discussed the possibility to start with a person page and then use a bot to make a new info page direct from the personpage, that immediate automatic has the surname, given name, full name, years of birth and death at the right place. Richard thought that it was not allowed, without permission of central wikia to make such bot. Do you know if this is allowed ? Fred Bergman 14:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)


 * See Category:Bots and Genealogy:Bot policy. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No need to consult Central.
 * User:Phlox said he was planning to do something like that. You could do what he could do.
 * You are, of course, proposing to take the data from the page name, not from the personpage text. And presumably to add the person article template to the article, in the same operation.
 * I see very little advantage in using such a bot except for our 15,000 or so existing pages that have no info pages, because all of that data (except the death year) is fairly easy to drag and drop from the info page name, when one is following the recommended procedure for new person pages (i.e. starting with the info page).
 * I can see how it would get the years right (maybe even the qualified years), but it would have trouble splitting up the name. I guess that, if it has a good try using the "standard" English model, the person who finishes the info page will be able to copy and/or paste easily to fix any irregular cases with patronyms and nicknames and titles.
 * If it works, it will create many thousands of new info pages with very little info and needing to be found by somebody and worked on. That extra search time might negate the value of the bot, because of the drag-and-drop efficiency I mentioned above. But there could be ways of minimising the search-and-open time, e.g. by putting all such pages in a temporary category, from which another bot could find and open batches on request, perhaps selecting by surname so that those of us whose tradition is all-English can avoid surnames that we know will have complications!
 * Have a go! (32.000 ... 47.000 ... +++)
 * Past my bedtime. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 15:09, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Use of Template:T
When referring in text to a template, you can display it as a clickable and copiable link with T. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

People with no dates
Richard, I mentioned them (above) a few days ago. I created a separate forum about them: Forum:People with no birth or death dates. You may be still creating pages for them with unhelpful double question marks. Gisela (?-?) could refer to any of thousands of women, surely? So "she" should not have an info page but should be a redirect to Gisela. Please put your thoughts on the forum. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:08, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Wiki Format Generator, de laatste loodjes
hi Fred, je moet de gecompileerde versie niet mengen met de ongecompileerde versie. Dat gaat gegarandeerd mis. De .zip file die ik stuurde moet je ergens unzippen, en dan in de Windows Explorer/Mijn Computer op Wiki_Format_Generator.jar clicken. Je hoeft hiervoor niet NetBeans op te starten. rtol 15:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Volgens mij zie ik iets over het hoofd, we zijn er, maar ik zie het niet.
 * C:\Wiki\Wiki Format Generator\dist\Wiki_Format_Generator\wikiformatgenerator\


 * in dist zit de Wiki_Format_Generator.jar WINRAR Archief 52kb


 * als ik daarop klik gebeurt er niets; als ik er dubbel op klik dan krijg ik een extractiescherm met mappen com META-INF en :wikiformatgenerator; in wikiformatgenerator vind ik class bestanden, maar nergens een executable jar file te zien ! :Fred Bergman 17:22, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Wiki_Format_Generator.jar en 52 kb zijn juist. WINRAR Archief betekent dat je computer denkt dat dit een gecomprimeerd archief is, ipv een executable.


 * Bij mij ziet de map DIST er uit als


 * Lib
 * Readme 2kb Text document
 * Wiki_format_generator 52kb executable JAR file


 * Lib heeft alleen gbdi-13-jll.jar 1424kb executable JAR file


 * Welk besturingssysteem gebruik je? rtol 18:08, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Ik gebruik Windows XP professional; ik denk dat ik met unzippen een chaos heb gemaakt:
 * Lib heeft bij mij een file en wel dezelfde file als jij 1424kb, maar weer als archive;
 * Dist heeft bij mij *Lib(map) *Readme(file) *Wiki_format_generator 52kb WinRAR archive JAR file, maar bovendien ook nog *map jLifelines *map META-INF *map net *map Wiki Format Generator *dist.zip *Manifest 1kb file *

kun je hier wat mee? Fred Bergman 19:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Gedcom
Je hebt dist.zip nog, dus er is niets aan de hand.

Rechts-klik op dist.zip. In het menu dat dan verschijnt hoort er het Nederlandse equivalent van "extract all" te staan. Selecteer dat. Klik volgende. Dan verschijnt er iets als "files will be extracted to this directory". Redigeer die tekst tot c:\wiki. Klik op volgende en verder.

Dit maakt een nieuwe map aan met alleen de juiste bestanden erin. rtol 19:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Niet conform standaards
Er zijn wel diverse verschillen, mijn namen zijn in kapitalen en hier worden ze onderkast en kapitalen door elkaar weergegeven. De templates van de infopage en van de person page moeten nog worden aangepast aan de laatste ontwikkelingen, maar dat is momenteel niet de hoofdzaak, We hebben het werkbaar, nu nog afmaken. Fred Bergman 19:37, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

gedcom opmerking, te vroeg hoera
We kunnen nu een eenvoudige handleiding schrijven, achteraf is alles eenvoudig (je kent het gezegde van de koeiereet!), maar we moeten toch oppassen dat er geen rommel komt. Veel is afhankelijk van de zorgvuldigheid van de uploader. Ik zou het nog maar niet aan de grote klok hangen. Ik zal je informeren over de onvolkomenheden. Ik ga volgende week donderdag de elfstedentocht met mijn camper rijden en ben pas weer 11 mei terug. Ik pas deze nieuwe techniek nog niet toe, dat kan ook niet, omdat de resultaten niet copieerbaar zijn; we zijn er dus wederom nog niet !
 * Fred Bergman 19:54, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

voorlopig geconstateerde onvolkomenheden:

 * 1) prettig is dat mijn surnames automatisch van kapitalen naar onderkast worden omgezet, echter de eerste letter wordt dan ook onderkast en dat moet niet, echter bij 1 van de 5 personen ging het wel goed;
 * 2) prettig is ook dat automtisch een pagenaam wordt geformuleerd, echter dan staan de achternamen wel in kapitalen en (YOB-YOD) werkt niet zoals we gewend zijn (15 FEB 1748- abt 1830);
 * 3) het land wordt geplaatst als Birth place;
 * 4) subst:basepagename wordt gebruikt, was dit nu juist goed of niet voor de ahnentafel?
 * 5) bij source wordt afgedrukt error kan source werelate niet vinden
 * 6) het meest vervelende is dat ik niet met mijn muis kan copieren/knippen en plakken; hoe repareer ik dat?
 * Fred Bergman 08:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

nieuwe conversie-problemen gedcom
bovenstaande geconverteerde gedcom was ik heb een andere gedcom  geprobeerd en daar weer andere problemen aangetroffen,
 * alle personen krijgen nu ineens (?-?), niet in de pagename, maar in de link via de infopage, dus linken ze niet.
 * mijn kapitalen blijven in de pagename kapitalen, maar op de infopage worden het 1 kapitaal gevolgd door onderkast
 * alternative names worden niet in de infopage opgenomen
 * Amsterdam,NH,NL wordt in een regel achter place gezet
 * geboorte- en sterfdata staan niet in de infopage, maar wel op de personpage
 * huwelijksdatum en plaats, niet in de infopage, maar wel op de personpage
 * Fred Bergman 12:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

de search functie hier
begrijp ik er niets van of is de zoekfunctie hier ronduit slecht. ik houd er van pages op te vrolijken als een kladschilder op zijn zondags, zomaar wat hobbyen met foto's en layouts verbeteren. Helaas kan ik vaak mijn eigen foto's en personen niet meer terugvinden omdat de zoekfunctie kennelijk alleen maar reageert op exacte ingeving van namen. je wilt niet weten hoe lang ik er over gedaan heb om Anna van Engelands foto en site te vinden. Het gevolg hiervan is, dat ondanks alle goede bedoelingen, er toch straks enorme hoeveelheden dubbele pages gaan komen, tenzij die zoekfunctie wat ruimer wordt. heb jij wel eens gekeken en/of geëxperimenteerd met de WeRelate zoekfunctie, speciaal als je een nieuwe pagina wilt aanmaken ? Zij hebben natuurlijk al die problemen waar wij voor staan ook al gehad en ook al oplossingen gezocht en daar zijn ze nog steeds mee bezig. De laatste verandering was het beperken van de gedcom upload procedure, geen blindelingse uploads meer met duizenden duplicates en rand rommel, maar nu automatisch gecombineerd met de zoekfunctie en verplicht ingrijpen van de uploader, de upload onderbreekt bij elke vermeende duplicate of onmogelijkheid (vader jonger dan kind bijvoorbeeld). Kijk er eens naar, misschien kom je daardoor op een idee voor hier. Fred Bergman 08:17, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * User:Phlox is hard aan het werk voor een betere zoekmachine, en alle dingen waar de Nederlandse wiki-club over klaagt. rtol 08:20, 3 May 2009 (UTC)


 * okay, het probleem is dus al bekend en is onder constructie!

De Nederlandse Wikiclub dreigt te verzanden, ik kreeg een paar emails waaruit blijkt dat men enerzijds toch veel minder respons krijgt dan waarop men gerekend had en anderzijds dat degenen die de kar zouden trekken eigenlijk te weinig tijd hebben om hun plannen waar te maken Fred Bergman 08:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Descendants of Charlemagne
Ik heb even vlug vlug de ontbrekende schakels ingevoegd (verslaafd he, ik kon het niet laten) van de kortere lineage van charlemagne naar beatrix en w.a., je zult het vast nog wel willen verbeteren, maar nu heb ik bij Stephen van Engeland zowel 11th als 13th generation. Fred Bergman 09:57, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

NN
Name starting with "NN" caught my eye. A genealogy enquiry on Twitter or some such site about a week ago wondered about a name on a record starting with "nn" and thought it might mean "no name". Does yours mean "No Name"? (If it does, the use of "Unknown" could be preferable so that we don't have a lot of its synonyms to keep track of. It would be a pity if we had a person called "NN" by one researcher and "Unknown" by another but nobody ever realised they were the same because they appeared a long way apart in lists.) — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:21, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * NN=Nomen Nescio, which is "I don't know the name" in Latin. I copied this one from another site without thinking. My convention is to call someone son, daughter or child (or fils, fille, enfant when dealing with someone from France, etc) which has slightly more info than just unknown. Happy to change my convention. rtol 11:27, 12 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you! Mmmmm. Child, fils, Sohn, filius, applies to everyone at first. But if a man of that sort has both a father and a child on this site (with contributors not realising there could be a link, or thinking that there might be but not thinking of all possible places to look), one contributor could call him "Child .....", another could call him "Unknown .....", and "never the twain shall meet" if all the lists for their known facts were fairly long. It seems you would be wise to switch to "Unknown". Our draft standard recommends it, for surnames and for given (or middle?) names. Partially cleaned GEDCOMs may give us lots of "Private" or "Living", to complicate things; but if we stick to those three we can more easily encourage users to check the other two for possible matches. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

That shouldn't have happened.
can you give me an example of the article where this occurred? - ~  Ph l o x  08:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevermind. I got it.  I will have it turned off shortly. Sorry.  - ~  Ph l o x   08:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Should be back to normal now. Forms will be optional- clicked from the banner text above the edit window.  If there is any other oddities you notice, let me know as I am about to knock off for the night. - ~  Ph l o x   08:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

the cousin test
see discussion on the talk page of married cousin test. I am turning in to bed soon so if you have any questions, you better fire them off soon.

I am not sure we would do the test this way, because it would require us to redundantly store children lists in the articles of both parents. My patch to info pages isn't doing that now, so we just have the list in either the father or the mother- that's why the grandparent lists are usually just one rather than four even though all may info pages. We might do this inelegant redundant storage scheme due to performance reasons. We'd rely on bots to keep the lists consistent, and this will work if they are easy enough to use. The bot option will likely be, with some custom plugin(s) that I build for it. So it will be a lot easier to use than other bot tools (pywikipedia). - ~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x  08:43, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Promoting Familypedia bij Genealogie on Line
Hallo Richard, ik probeer momenteel Familypedia aan te bevelen bij de forum gebruikers van Genealie on Line. Het eerste struikelblok is dat niet gevonden kan worden, kennelijk zonder een gebruikersaccount aan te maken, dat de site ook in het nederlands te raadplegen is, en uitsluitend een keuze geeft tussen frans en engels. Het is volgens mij aan te bevelen direct op de mainpage de mogelijkheid duidelijk in beeld te brengen een alternatieve taal te kiezen en met name nederlands !http://www.stamboomforum.nl/actualiteit/2/16693/1 groeten Fred Bergman 11:17, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Nederlands
Robin zit al een tijdje te zeuren dat ik een Nederlandstalige versie moet bouwen. Misschien is nu het moment. Zie Forum:This Wikia is now multilingual. rtol 11:27, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Jawel, het is nu een goed moment, maar zonder een echt nederlandse vertaling compleet te hebben, kan er nu ook al gekozen worden voor nederlands als je ingelogd bent, dus als je die mogelijkheid op de voorpagina weet te krijgen voor de nog niet ingelogten zijn we al een stap verder.
 * Ik gebruik deze echter niet, omdat deze achterloopt of in elk geval afwijkt van de engelse versie en ik daardoor soms verbeteringen heb gemist. Nu na 10 dagen vakantie, krijg ik ineens vreemde weergaven van mijn pagina's en zal ik weer even moeten wennen aan de nieuwe situatie.


 * Hoofdprobleem opgelost. Er komen binnenkort Nederlandstalige sjablonen.


 * Alles ziet er anders uit omdat we nu semantisch zijn. Er zijn formulieren voor de invoer van gegevens, en je kunt vragen stellen als "laat alle Smits uit Rotterdam zien". We zijn nog aan het werk voor de vraag "wat is de relatie tussen Willem de Zwijger en Philip II?" rtol 13:11, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Taal is een preferentie. Je moet ingelogd zijn om preferenties te hebben ...
 * Showinfo person en Showinfo children hebben nu een Nederlandstalig equivalent Tooninfo persoon en Tooninfo kinderen. Zie Richard S.J. Tol (1969-). rtol 08:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Het lijkt mij het beste voorlopig mijn aantal ingebrachte pagina's maar even niet uit te breiden, maar mij te beperken tot het completeren van de reeds ingebrachte pagina's.
 * komt er ook nog een zoekmogelijkheid naar mogelijke duplicates, die wat ruimer is ingesteld, zodat duplicates in verschillende talen gevonden kunnen worden ? Fred Bergman 12:05, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Rtol's suggested sentence is now prominent on the main page and Help:Why create an account. Room for other languages when anyone asks. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:32, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Je zult mij niet kwalijk nemen dat ik voorlopig nog engels als voorkeur houd, omdat de nederlandse versie niet alle mogelijkheden prominent in beeld brengt, zoals bijvoorbeeld het menu aan de linkerkant, ik heb lang veel te veel tijd nodig gehad omdat ik niet op de hoogte was van "simple page for person", dit staat niet in de nederlandse versie in het menu; de nederlandse versie loopt of achter of anders dan de engelse menu versie! Fred Bergman 12:03, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Fred, het maakt mij niet uit welke taal je gebruikt. Ik werk zelf liever ook in het Engels. Het mengen van talen vind ik erg lelijk, maar dat is natuurlijk een kwestie van smaak. Showinfo person (nl) en Showinfo children (nl) werken ook. rtol 12:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)


 * ik kijk even naar de gemiddelde nederlandse gebruiker van genealogie sites en constateer dan dat engels voor die personen vaak onoverkomelijk is. om die personen toch over de streep te halen (als je die er tenminste bij wilt hebben) moeten we de nederlandse versie zoveel mogelijk gelijk laten zijn aan de engelse versie. geven de verschillende talen geen problemen als er een bot op een functie wordt losgelaten om deze te updaten ? Fred Bergman 12:17, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

voorkoming vandalisme en duplicaten
Als men zo bevreesd is voor vandalisme, waarom maken ze de anonieme bijdragen dan niet onmogelijk ? Als je echt wat wilt betekenen als genealogie site dan zul je toch grote gedcoms makkelijk moeten toelaten, duplicaten voorkom je dan door de methode van werelate. Fred Bergman 13:25, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * een dezer dagen zal jouw achterneef bij werelate de nieuwe gedcom procedure gaan testen, hij houdt mij op de hoogte Fred Bergman 12:09, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Ophouden?
helaas, ik kan het niet meer opbrengen, het kost mij op deze manier veel te veel tijd om mijn gegevens in te brengen. ik wacht wel tot er een goede gedcom uploadmogelijkheid is, tot dan blijf ik een beetje spelen met wat overzichten, wat foto's en hier en daar een verandering. groeten Fred Bergman 20:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi Fred -- ermee ophouden? het wordt net leuk nu dat we een echte database aan het bouwen zijn! Phlox komt binnenkort met een gebruikersvriendelijke bot, en de nieuwe versie van de Wikiformatgenerator is bijna klaar. Ik moet alleen nog hoofdletters in kleine letters omzetten. Ik heb dit een lage prioriteit gegeven, want de GEDCOMs die ik heb kunnen vinden, zijn van lage kwaliteit. rtol 20:57, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi Richard, ik houd er nog niet mee op maar doe een grote stap terug. Ik hobby wat hier en daar, werk aan mijn eigen genealogische database elders en wacht even af hoe het hier verder gaat, zal wel goed komen hoop ik. In elk geval, hoever Familypedia ook achterligt bij WeRelate, krijgen we nu toch mogelijkheden hier, die werelate niet heeft, zoals een werkbare onbeperkte ahnentafel (bij mijn kleindochters gaat er weer wat mis, wel de voorouders van pa bleijenberg, niet de voorouders van ma bergman)en de relatie tussen 2 personen (overigens dit is ook mooi bij geneaweb). groeten Fred Bergman 21:13, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

That was odd.
I don't know how that page was marked as having that default form. In any case, if you ever get to one of these forms, there is now a "return to normal editing" button at the top if it. I appreciate your patience with these oddities during this transition period. If you come across any more, please contact me asap. Thanks. - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x  07:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

"Event in place" pages (and other things in places)
"Why are you creating Died in Place pages? There is Category:Died in Place already, a page on Place that refers to Died in Place, and a Category:Place that has Died in Place as a subcategory. This is just duplication of work, and makes looking for the information more confusing. rtol 11:41, 22 May 2009 (UTC)"


 * Perfectly normal part of our much-discussed "place" scheme of things, though still rare. You shouldn't want a category to have lists etc (such as on Cemeteries in Greene County, Ohio, Died in Conecuh County, Alabama, Resided in Ashtabula County, Ohio, Resided in Georgia (U.S. state), Resided in Wagga Wagga, New South Wales) hiding the subcategories and articles. If you have "a page on Place that refers to Died in Place", and similar sorts of names (as a satisfactory alternative) for all the links on your Netherlands templates, I can reluctantly "let" you (departing from the standards of that set of categories) amend your "nl" templates so that they don't invite the creation of pages of the same pagename. Just make sure that you don't get contributors creating unwanted pages by following the links in your navboxes. I'll try to remember not to create any articles of that sort for the Netherlands. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:34, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

charlemagne stuff in info categories
Do you still need that stuff in there? It is making huge numbers of expensive calls. - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x  00:58, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

ahnentafel alexia
begrijp jij waarom de ahnen van claus niet worden vermeld? Fred Bergman 11:25, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Set ahn & set desc

 * Just to let you guys know, the children properties will be renamed shortly -s1 becomes -p1 etc. I will leave the -s1 etc. working for a while, but don't get attached to it.
 * Also, I am sorry about the double flushing (save twice) problem you speak of, but it is unavoidable at this point. - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x   18:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Karel de Grote
Hi Fred, je hoeft geen Category:Descendants of Charlemagne meer toe te voegen. Dat doet nu automatisch voor je (mits pa of ma ook van KdG afstammen). rtol 19:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * ik voeg die niet toe, maar voor de zekerheid liet ik de oude staan (nu niet meer). ik vervang mijn oude st1 door mijn nieuwe met ahn en desc en zoals je kunt zien werkt dat perfect! (van der salm tot en met brederode tot nu toe). trouwens, werkt de site bij jou ook zo traag ? ik heb mijn 2 geneanet sites samengevoegd en ben nu bezig alle dubbels ( enkele duizenden) te mergen en de kapitalen van de familynamen om te zetten in onderkast, maar die site werkt 10x zo snel als familypedia ! Fred Bergman 19:48, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Error on descendants
Why am I getting Expression error: Unrecognised word "non" on William Henry Marsh (1863-c1940). Thurstan 22:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Standard Biographical Text
How do I convert the numerical month from the info page (as in birth month or death month) to a word when I am using get? Bill Hunsicker 21:44, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Descendants of Charlemagne Wilhelmina en Gerard II van Gelre
Gerard is a disputed descendant of Charlemagne. His father was married twice. There is no evidence that Clemence is his mother. rtol 10:18, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
 * moeten wij bij Koningin Wilhelmina ook niet zetten disputed, omdat zij nooit een kind van Willem III kon zijn, die was onvruchtbaar door syphillus en algemeen bekend is dat Emma een relatie had met haar kamerheer, die geadeld werd omdat die nederland voorzag van een troonopvolger, dit staat zelfs op de nederlandse wikipedia, zij het in afgezwakte vorm Fred Bergman 08:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Traag
Phlox is bezig met een groot experiment, en ik heb wat onhandig geprogrammeerd. Dat vertraagt alles. Het lijkt me dat er ook wat server problemen zijn. rtol 19:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


 * okay, met name bij het saven wacht ik vaak langer dan een minuut en dan heb ik er gauw genoeg van om verder te gaan Fred Bergman 07:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Karel de Grote
Ik ben bezig de categorie Afstammeling van KdG te vervangen door een algemener Belangwekkende Voorouders.

Er is nu ook een sjabloon Lineage die in een klap alle lijnen uitzet. rtol 07:56, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

okay, ik ga het uitproberen; wordt er trouwens nog een bot ontwikkeld om in 1 klap alle persoonspagina's te updaten naar de laatste versies ? Fred Bergman 08:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Fouten in GEDCOM
De gevonden fouten zitten in de data, niet in het formaat. rtol 14:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * zou je dat kunnen preciseren, want ik begrijp, dat het dan mijn fout kan zijn en dat kan ik dan beter voorkomen in de toekomst! Fred Bergman 14:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

broken again
I see it. Weird. Should have worked. One moment... - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x  18:13, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

GEDCOM
http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Help_talk:Loading_Gedcoms#GEDCOM_upload_under_SMW — Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:08, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Pages where template include size is exceeded
Hallo Richard, ik krijg steeds de mededeling webpagina kan niet gevonden worden als ik probeer sommige personpages te updaten naar st1, met name Jan van Hattum (bef1371-aft1422) en Reinoud III van Gelre (c1333-1371) (ik probeer alle namen op Joost van Essevelt (c1665-bef 1722)/ancestors aan te passen aan de laatste naamgeving en te gelijkeertijd de verouderde st te vervangen door de laatste versie met jouw aanpassingen, maar bij deze 2 ontmoet ik nu een merkwaardige situatie, zelfs showinfo children werkt niet meer ! Fred Bergman 07:29, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Descendants of Charlemagne (Generation N)
Thanks for note on my talk page. I presume now that all or most of the "Category:Descendants of Charlemagne (Generation N)" entries on pages were done automatically? So, since the automatic work (which I remember being discussed as a load problem - I contributed part of the discussion) stopped, pages for people who had not been categorized and for new people have not been getting the categories. I have a vague recollection that some pages that had been in such a category suddenly lost their categorization.

My request on Generation 7 was simply that pages be categorized, and I wasn't thinking of automation. If "manual" is the only reasonably available way, I guess I can volunteer to do some of it while you programmers do more useful things. But if there's a prospect of re-automation I'll not rush in.

One disappointment noticed today was the removal of the "sort=birth date". I saw the discussion involving Phlox in one of the page histories. I tested generation 7, finding that it left out a quarter of the list. No good if it leaves anyone out; but maybe it will do that anywhere; which suggests to me that we should give everyone a birth date, however approximate (meaning "rough") it may be. Family Tree Maker's "World Family Tree" disks have manufactured a likely date range for everyone who has no YOB.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:50, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Please stop deleting those categories. Discuss at their parent category talk page. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

SMW ahnentafel & descendants
De ahnentafel van persoon neemt de ahnentafel van vader en moeder, combineert ze, gooit de gedeelde voorouders er uit, en voegt de persoon toe. Als er iets mis is, dan moet je dus de fout opsporen in een voorouder, die pagina saven, en vervolgens je door de hele boom werken.

De lijst met descendants werkt hetzelfde maar in de andere richting. Descendants neemt de descendants van de kinderen, combineert die, en voegt persoon toe.

Ahnentafel komt vanzelf goed als je van oud naar jong werkt, en descendants komt vanzelf goed als van jong naar oud werkt.

Het systeem ververst zich zelf ook, dus je kunt ook gewoon geduld oefenen. rtol 14:31, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Siegfried van Holland dubieuze nakomeling Charlemagne ?
Een fabel De jonge vrouw Tedburgha van Staveren uit Castricum ontmoet rond het jaar 1000 bij het toen nog houten kasteel Brederode de man van haar dromen: Sivaert, de tweede zoon van de machtige graaf Arnoud van Holland. Sivaert wordt de eerste heer van het huis Brederode en stamvader van de Van Brederode's. Maar dit gebeurt niet zonder slag of stoot. Tedburgha is van een lagere stand dan de zonen van de graaf en zij krijgen ruzie over het voorgenomen huwelijk. Uiteindelijk mogen Sivaert en Tedburgha toch trouwen. Zij gaan wonen in het kasteel waar ze elkaar voor het eerst hebben gezien: en waarvan nu alleen nog de ruïne over is. De verwoeste zuid-oosttoren van het kasteel Brederode staat vandaag de dag nog bekend als de Tetburgatoren. Volgens deze zogeheten Sivaert Brederode-legende stamt de familie Van Brederode rechtstreeks af van de graven van Holland. Een Van Brederode stelt een - naar later blijkt - onjuiste stamboom op in een poging te bewijzen dat zijn voorvaderen graven van Holland zijn. Sivaert (de Friezen noemden hem Sicco) sterft in 1033. Hij laat twee zonen na, Diederik en Simon.Fred Bergman 12:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

ahnentafel bug
I believe I understand the bug that produces "Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "&".

Have you seen any cases where it happens with an article that does not require an html entity for it's page name? The problem is that in the ahnentafel and descendants templates, I used a semicolon to delimit fields. This is evil because unbeknownst to me, smw will substitute html entities in these strings, and of course they are terminated with semicolons.

Unfortunately, the fix will require regeneration of all these trees. - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x  16:57, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nevermind. I forgot.  I am not generating these delimiters. N-ary relations require them and I have to have N-ary relations because we need to query on individual subelements.  I have a workaround fix that will address this apostrophe bug.  See special usage warning in set ahn.  I mask out the apostrophe before smw gets their hands on it.  This creates a redlink that if redirected will allow queries to work just fine.  So it means you can include all these apostrophe people without hacking the article itself- renaming them all to articles with left quote in the name.  AWB will have to be run to percolate the fix down through descendants. - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x   19:52, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

set desc -> set dsc
I noticed that pages were getting exceptionally slow, and changed over your routine to not use info queries. Using smw calls makes it 100x faster. I didn't test it heavily but results appeared to be the same as set desc, however, it appears to me that you may have a bug in there. If you look at the test case, it prints out only 1 descendant for Louise. She has two. Not sure what you are doing with this- all I did was make it less hard on the wikia servers. - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x  21:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

ahnentafel van Willem Alexander
Ik krijg de vader van Gösta Freiin von dem Bussche-Haddenhausen (1902-1996) niet in haar en niet in de ahnentafel van Willem Alexander en zijn dochters ! Fred Bergman 15:59, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

forloop
I noticed that the wikipedia code I ported has a strange characteristic on wikia. It appears to introduce extra lines. The workaround until I figure out this problem is to hide the loop inside a div style="display:none". It's a bummer, but I swear I copied the code verbatim and it has this weird line feed. It could be that tidyhtml always hid this from the wikipedia users so no one noticed it. - <font color="#0A9DC2">~  <font color="#0DC4F2">Ph <font color="#3DD0F5">l <font color="#6EDCF7">o <font color="#9EE8FA">x  07:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

herstel vandalisme
ik constateerde vandalisme bij 1 van jouw personen op de info pagina en heb geprobeerd dat te herstellen.

Monique van Haren (1958-)/info‎‎ (2 changes; hist). . (-255) . . [84.106.142.144‎; Bergsmit‎]Fred Bergman 17:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Additions to Info categories
Please see Forum:I will remove template Info categories. I don't understand what Fred did last, but I'm pleased he's pleased.

I suggest a new template to include most or all of the non-category things that are taking up time. People can then easily cut that off any article they create if it seems to be slowing loads, without losing all the valuable categories. Maybe call it Info&SMW tests.

Thanks again for all of your pioneering work here.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:03, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Louise Barbara Trump (1900-1985)
Please see if you can help with Talk:Louise Barbara Trump (1900-1985). When you and I were discussing a famous Frisian whose spouse was his 11th-cousin (later reduced to about 6th by SMW crawling), I remarked on the presence of a woman named Trump who had an impossibly high generation number in a list, and you said she was a Phlox invention. Now he denies it and says the descendancy project is all yours. Please skim the discussion then tell me where to look~ — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

SMW Wrong?!
'''This is wrong and incomplete information, descendants of Charlemagne are exposed with more than 45 descendants, but Charlemagne himself is not mentioned then; some children are mentioned, but not their parent(s) ! If there is 1 person with 70 descendants then there must be at least 51 persons with 20 descendants and what do we see? 12 persons !--Fred Bergman 22:32, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Semantic MediaWiki is being applied to a growing number of our articles. With under half of our "person" pages included, Familypedia has found pages on men,  pages on women, and:


 * persons who may have some or no currently-recorded descendants;


 * persons with at least 10 generations of descendants;
 * persons with at least 20 generations of descendants;
 * persons with at least 30 generations of descendants;


 * persons with at least 45 generations of descendants;

An error with your AWB run
Regarding this edit: Eilika von Schweinfurt-

I believe you want instead to do this:

This means that all Semantic reports will have results sorted for items where this last name/ first name sort key is specified. EG. Search for everyone born in 1000 will produce this list. von Schweinfurt is at the end where she should be, while Albert II van Namen is not. 00:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Pardon me jumping in, but I created Person sortkey the other day so that we could have a centralized way of doing this. So I recommend the code . Thurstan 03:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Age at death property: I hacked your set death date to work with the current set facts scaffolding code. As explained in the comment, the bug in age (SMW) is that it expects valid full dates in the birth data and death date fields. They aren't in many articles and this is the source of the problem where you were getting cockamamie ages from age (SMW). The set facts scaffolding code might be able to error check a percentage of the dates, but it would not be perfect, and besides is really a waste of time to do in a template anyway. The right way is to do it properly with a robust set of date conversion expressions using AWB. So, until we upgrade info pages, we can probably live with the fact that your age at death property could be off by +1 year in cases where we do have month and day information. 00:25, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Template newlines
You may notice that I removed a bunch of newlines from info categories. It does make the template more readable to have line breaks after each template, but what this does in the final article introduce a bunch of empty lines. It is ok to put line breaks inside conditionals since those get eaten. If generating newlines cannot be avoided or I am experimenting, I use a span with display:none. 17:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Tol Request
Hello. Can I have your email address? Or email me at williamshade@gmail.com. Found a little info on the Tol you asked about and a Petrus Tol who came with him. Have document images to send so an email would be best. Thanks -  William Allen Shade 01:24, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

extension (nl.)
Weet jij wat er gaande is, gaan ze nu alle persoonpagina's in alle talen scheiden en krijgen we dan dezelfde chaos als op Rodovid ? --Fred Bergman 05:59, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

I would like to be able to hide your magnificent series of AWB tweaks
With two per minute, going for hours at a time, the "Recent changes" gets really hard to use. Any chance you could :
 * Mark them all as "minor" so I can hide them?
 * Get them done by a bot so that they are normally hidden?

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:00, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for quick response. Either my display was playing up or I'm getting too old for this. Now I can see that they are definitely marked as minor. Thank you for being thoughtful again. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Gedcom to Wiki format generator
Hallo Richard ! Probleem is opgelost, het systeem werkt. Helaas met de oude template voor een info pagina en persoonspagina. Hoeft natuurlijk geen bezwaar te zijn, maar vraagt dan wel extra handwerk. --Fred Bergman 19:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

chart working
Try tidbits again after hitting cntl-F5. 22:46, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Graphs
"Can you kindly put in a request that Google Charts for MediaWiki be installed? It is the same technology as what's behind the pie chart on Genealogy:Statistics/SMW tidbits but with code that is far easier. rtol 06:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)"


 * Why me? You can talk to them about that more intelligently than I can. And with you being our top user No 3 you may get a better hearing than I would. Can you see "Contact Wikia" near the bottom of the page? Or is there a problem I'm not aware of? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

awb approval
AWB wouldn't run until you got awb approval at w:c:Wikia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage, isn't that correct? 03:45, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Plaatsnamen en achternamen
Phlox staat op het punt alle plaats-pagina's te vervangen.

Een van de gevolgen van SMW is dat categorieen zoals "Smit (surname)" en "Born in Heiloo" overbodig zijn en binnenkort waarschijnlijk afgeschaft worden. rtol 11:33, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * okay, ik stop direct --Fred Bergman 11:35, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Genealogy:Requests for adminship
Hallo Richard ! Ik heb het idee dat jij makkelijker kunt werken als jij admin rechten zou hebben. Daarom heb ik voorgesteld Genealogy:Requests for adminship jou admin rechten te geven. Ik neem aan dat je die zult accepteren. Groeten --Fred Bergman 06:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * ik heb nog niet gezien dat je een benoeming zou aanvaarden en volgens de gewone gang van zken wacht het clubje van acht daar volgens mij op alvorens het verzoek te ondersteunen.--Fred Bergman 22:55, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I nominate (User:Rtol) for admin rights
It will be easier to work for him if he should be an admin sysop. Currently he is the most active genealogy and site-improving contributor.--Fred Bergman 09:41, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Questions: Has Rtol accepted this nomination? It's a requirement on Wikipedia's RfA (see here) for nominees to first accept their nomination and I think it makes sense Wiki-wide. For instance, I know some people who don't want to be entrusted with the responsibility. Also, does Rtol really feel his/her work would be "easier" with admin tools? If so, why? —DeGraffJE talk 11:19, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Consent:   

Supporting

 * Fred Bergman 09:41, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * — Robin Patterson (Talk) 04:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Neutral

 * William Allen Shade 18:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I never walk away from responsibility, but I do not really have the time. The only advantage of adminship is that I could delete the pages I create by accident. rtol 07:46, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Opposing

 * (changed vote from support) DeGraffJE's point has merit. Although our process today more resembles that of WP when it first started, it is reasonable to expect a statement of acceptance of nomination, and a statement covering the items DeGraffJE enumerated.  I remain positive about Rtol's contributions here but should not assume what justification Rtol has in mind or if he even desires this responsibility and accepts the constraints that go along with it.   17:18, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
 * My oppose is firmed up given Rtol's neutrality. Only those who actively want to be (and desire continuing to be) an admin, should be an admin.  By extension, the same goes for all positions.  We should probably retire IFaqueer and WWillis's status unless they intend to take an active part in bureaucrat duties.  They can always be reinstated when they want to resume work here.   19:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

aanvulling
ik vergat een deel van mijn text en met name mijn bericht aan jou. Hoe je het ook wendt of keert, je zult moeten toegeven, dat jij een van de belangrijkste, zo niet de belangrijkste bijdrager aan deze site bent. Phlox mag dan wel imposant werk doen door de gelegenheid te scheppen en de site te bouwen, maar jij geeft op voorbeeldige wijze invulling, waardoor de voordelen pas goed tot zijn recht komen en anderen met kleine aanvullingen verbeteringen kunnen proberen aan te brengen. Er van uit gaande dat jij geen voorbijganger bent en dat je ook verbeteringen wilt aanbrengen in de presentatie en niet afhankelijk wilt zijn of anderen jouw gewenste veranderingen in de beschermde delen der site willen aanbrengen acht ik het essentieel dat jij een admin bent en die rechten uitoefent, ook al omdat er voor Nederlandstaligen geen admin aanspreekpunt is. Dus nogmaals mijn vraag aan jou accepteer s.v.p. het admin schap in het belang van onder meer het kunnen vormen van een nederlandse gemeenschap met officieel berechtigde nederlandse voortrekker !-- Fred Bergman 06:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Major purpose of this site
Ik ben van mening dat het belangrijkste doel van deze site moet zijn het tot stand brengen van één wereldwijde samenhangende en verbonden genealogische database, waaraan iedereen mag bijdragen. Ik vind het een ernstige zaak dat dit niet op de hoofdpagina en introductiepagina staat, want volgens mij draait alles daarom en is dat de grote aantrekkelijkheid voor veel mensen die komen kijken op de site. Nu missen we al die voorbijgangers, die even komen kijken en weer weggaan en wegblijven.-- Fred Bergman 06:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Doelstelling
Waarom schrijf je dat niet op de Nederlandse hoofdpagina? Dan vertaal ik het wel naar het Engels. rtol 06:53, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Nederlandse hoofdpagina
Citaat: When you have completed the Dutch home page, please link whatever you name it into the tabs language template on the english page. ~ Phlox 18:02, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Ik denk dat de vertaalde hoofdpagina klaar is, zou jij hem kunnen linken, ik begrijp niet hoe dat precies werkt.-- Fred Bergman 07:29, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


 * was al gelinkt rtol 07:37, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

als ik mijn voorkeur op nederlands instel, dan blijf ik de engelse versie krijgen -- Fred Bergman 07:53, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

toch verwant?
ik denk dat wij gemeenschappelijke verwanten hebben in de familie Blokdijk Hoorn -- Fred Bergman 07:59, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Wiki probleem:
Controle ontbreekt op logische geboorte-sterfte-trouwdata !Bij WeRelate werd ik er gek van en bij Familypedia had je weer het zelfde probleem, maar op zo'n grote schaal als bij SharedTree heb ik het niet meegemaakt. Hele volkstammen gebruikers voegen maar lukraak samen als de naam er maar een beetje op lijkt, kinderen die meer dan 200 jaar verschillen, echtgenoten die 100 jaar jonger of ouder zijn, ouders die jonger zijn dan de kinderen het houdt niet op. Die controle zal toch echt wel ingebracht moeten worden !--Bergsmit sep 2, 2009 22:30 (UTC)

Diagnose
We berekenen de levensduur en de leeftijd van de moeder bij de geboorte. Zie Genealogy:Statistics/SMW tidbits. Dit vangt veel problemen, maar als je andere kengetallen wilt voorstellen dan zou ik een discussie op het forum openenen. rtol 05:27, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Betekent dit, dat je automatisch gewaarschuwd wordt op het moment dat je een te jonge of te oude moeder invoert, of te jonge of te oude kinderen voor de moeder ? de vader wordt buiten beschouwing gelaten ? een programma als geneanet (geen wiki) heeft hiervoor wel een automatische waarschuwing die steeds te voorschijn komt als je een bewerking wilt doen of hebt gedaan in de directe omgeving van die fout, maar dat is geen wiki of is dat niet relevant ?--Bergsmit 07:11, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

basisnaamgeving in de eigen taal van de persoon zelf
Dietrich of Drenthe and Salland (c912-aft964)/info; was deze man geen Nederlander, moeten we dan niet de naam Dirk van Drenthe en Salland als basis gebruiken ?--Bergsmit 07:29, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Field updates

 * date-y has been updated to date year as I believe you suggested.
 * coparent was renamed to joined with. I know, it is obscure too, but "parent" in the name suggested parent of the subject.  These do have relevance to the RDF community.
 * Other field updates are listed at Forum:SMW articles update. I think the two above are the major ones.  These have already been changed in set facts from info.  - 18:03, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

Info page creation
I think the showfacts stuff is ready for your use now and there is no need for you to create info pages. Please phase in use of the template scheme used by the articles using template:showfacts person-ex. These for the most part require no double flushing and employ a comprehensive solution to the multilingual problem.

Probably the set ancestor/ descendant stuff need -ex versions to access the new field names. Once everything including the info pages are upgraded, we all be using the same property names. I probably won't be ready to upgrade info pages until late next week.

Okay? 15:32, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Performance problems
Is it your belief that there are no performance issues with set ahn and set desc? Because that is not what I am seeing. Perhaps it is just random chance, but as soon as you switched them back on, the conversions slowed to a crawl. 06:22, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
 * The pace has picked back up. No worries for now....  06:30, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Can't use semicolon
Per our earlier run ins with this, Wikimedia engine very unhelpfully places html entities inside page names, most notoriously for apostrophes, which we have a lot of with french names. This affects all lists delimited by semicolons split on the semicolon following &#htmlcode;'s

The unpretty alternatives are
 * require prefix of space. EG: " ," or " ;" must be used.
 * use a funny character EG: + or ~

This mostly is a question about what is best for novice users. I prefer +, but I must confess none of them thrill me and I would just as soon go along with any of the others if anyone had a strong opinion or alternate proposal. I don't like the space preceding because it is error prone. Plus is easy to spot while tilde is not.

Your opinion/ additional proposal?

05:33, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

news

 * showfacts interwikis is working now.
 * I shall be beginning some bulk imports of WP article soon. The idea is to move them to a biography subpage, mark the intro paragraph, and extract the pertinent genealogy info for the main page.  Autoimport the pictures associated with the article.

Any articles of particular interest to you? I don't care- I just need some set that is easy enough to parse and all things being equal, I'll choose one that current contributors are most interested in.

I will do all of them in time (probably a couple hundredK bio articles), including major other language versions (de and es first- others by domain- czars- ru and dutch nobles-nl.) The goal of this phase is to establish a backbone of high quality articles. I'd hate for our wiki to become a Gedcom Dumping ground like so many other sites. 07:21, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Html tidy bug on months template fixed
You had a malfunctioning calendar template on 1980. This was a port of a wp template that had an Category:Htmltidy bug in it. Occaissionally, these can be trivially fixed by simply importing a new copy of the template from WP. When I did that, the bug went away. You can try this out yourself when you run into a future html tidy bug templates.

17:16, October 10, 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia as the naming authority.
Is there any particular reason why you are creating article names that do not conform to WP names of individuals? Example, today you created Adalbéron de Reims (c925-989), along with its english interwiki for it, so you know that the WP name is Adalberon (Archbishop of Reims). I am wondering why you didn't create the article with the name Adalberon (Archbishop of Reims) (c925-989). That's what the naming standard says it should be. 06:24, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not particularly consistent in its naming, so I do not feel bound by it. I should, of course, follow the conventions on this site. That said, a genealogy site should refer to people by their family name, not by their job. My name is Richard Tol. It is not Richard, Professor of Economics. But Adalbero I fudged. His family was in flux in this generation. I'll give him the same name as his brother. rtol 07:27, October 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * If your argument is valid, then we should not accept WP's authority for names of places either. If you wish to open this issue, then either you must propose an authority that is superior to WP's, or you are proposing that Familypedia have no authority.  Which is it?  15:56, October 13, 2009 (UTC)

who are you?
hi where did you get the Tol families imformation from ?

Cousin Klaas wrote a book, published by a local foundation:
 * Klaas Tol (2001), Het Westfriese Tollenboek 1600-2000, Stichting Westfriese Families, Hoorn.

Happy to forward his address if you identify yourself, e.g. by sending me an email (google Richard Tol) rtol 09:20, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

showfacts person-ex
There is no good reason to use the experimental showfacts person template. Currently they have the same behavior but often I try out stuff using it that will break any articles using it. I don't intend to go back and convert any articles using -ex to the normal template, so if you leave them like this, they will periodically break- possibly for weeks or months at a time if I or someone else leaves the -ex version in a broken state. 16:13, October 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing out the redlink behavior. It is rather curious because the switch to the non-ex version went in over 10 days ago, and all properties at that time said the default form was Form:Person.   For now I have patched it so that everyone will go to the non experimental version of the form.   23:42, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

set ahn rewrite

 * In ahn convert, I had a check to verify there are not duplicates between the motherside and the father side ancestors. Currently, it just outputs "duplicate".  I recall some talk about inbreeding tests.  Was this the purpose of the duplicate check?  If so, I vaguely recall you doing inbreeding some other way, so it would seem that this portion of the logic can be tossed.  True?


 * Secondly, the 5 generation limit you have in there can be relaxed since the calculation will be on a separate /sensor subpage.


 * What are the templates that interrogate the Ahnentafel property? AFAIK, only set ahn and the showfacts tree thing uses it.


 * Thurstan prefers "pedigree" as the tab name for where ((t|showfacts tree02}} and possibly ((t|showfacts tree01}} are used. While "pedigree" has a precise meaning for genealogists and is preferable in that context to the ambiguous term "tree", the term "pedigree" is off putting for family history neophytes- what with the "purity"/"class"/dog breeding associations of the non genealogical sense of the term.  If we are shooting for a general audience, it seems to me we should not use specialized language in our interface.  21:45, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

premature upgrade of SMW templates
This template is being used on a couple thousand main pages and is currently making them exceptionally slow. It is premature to make the template even slower. I am almost in position to remove its use on the main page this since PhloxBot has just completed creation of all sensor pages. If you are satisfied the data is being calculated ok on the sensor pages, then let's remove it from info categories. Are we ready to take this step?

Actually, the -ex version is the "real version" anyway since it is the one installed on all the sensor pages. This will be so until a new update bot pass is made on these pages. 16:45, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

set dsc/aux1
I see you were plumbing the templates. I noticed that set dsc/aux1 is querying the main page for descendants, not the sensor subpage. If is a link, then you can use & to change it back to a string, and postpend the /sensor. 18:54, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Your sensor update run
Whoa. Is this your sensor run?

First off, please create a bot account like RtolBot. I will put a bot flag on it so your edits don't flood the recent list.

Second, you need to do this in chronological order. If you have Word, take a look at Help:AutoWikiaBrowser/sensor pages.

22:25, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * Presumably you are away from your machine, so I blocked you for 10 minutes. Hopefully AWB won't restart itself after that  period is up.


 * Unless I am misunderstanding something obvious, this run cannot possibly achieve your goal. You won't get any Charlemagne descendants this way because you need to go from oldest to youngest descendants for the percolation to work properly.   23:40, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Korvers
I did a handful of Korvers. Let me know if they are missing any arms or legs. I suggest that after the Korver and surname Tol that if I do a mass run that I do all info pages you have edited for subjects born 19th century or more recent. That's quite a few and eliminates a lot of nobility that others have also edited.

Let me know what you think.

06:22, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. I'll let that one run unattended.  Korver surname is only about 50-75, so it will be done shortly.    06:47, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Flooding the recent changes list.
Perhaps you don't understand. Other folks watch the recent changes list on an IRC channel for all wikis on wikia so that they can detect suspicious activity. You will be flooding that list with about 7000 edits. Bot flags are not optional for folks making runs this big. Sorry. Please shut the bot off and establish the bot account. It will only take a second. 07:15, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * You shall have an admin flag on the bot account and you will be able to run it without the checkpage permission on this wiki. Please don't use the admin functions since you have not been approved by the community.  When you get the check page, the admin flag will be dropped.  You can do your run tonight.  Let me know if it won't let you run in bot mode.   07:28, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoa. This is new.  They don't let bureaucrats give bot flags anymore.  Well we can't wait on them.  Just make your run and if they complain to me I'll explain its their own dang fault.   07:41, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

bot runs that stop on their own
In case your bot run halted unexpectedly, I have noticed that setting timeout on preferences.site tab (like 60 seconds) and setting the nudge option on the bot tab will allow bot runs to go unattended for much longer. Running during the day, I set the bot updates to a lower refresh (30 to 60 seconds) depending on how slowly the server appeared to be responding.

Thanks for helping with the maintenance task of performing with automated runs. 17:23, November 8, 2009 (UTC)

Tol family ok? Ready for all articles you have edited for figures after say 1800?
Are you ready for an additional batch of info conversions yet? Say everything you have edited (prior to your bot runs) for figures since 1800? 23:08, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Adrianus_A._Korver_(1910-1911)/info
had a birth month of 13. 01:22, November 14, 2009 (UTC)

interwikis
My approach on interwikis is to ignore the old ones. We need to be refreshing interwikis from Wikipedia as part of an ongoing bot maintenance run.

Something could be done in the interim as a quick hack using AWB I suppose. Do you need these in a big hurry? 07:06, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

German Kings
I know that and you know that, but on wikipedia, the category "German kings" contains 63 pages and 11 subcategories. When we copy from wikipedia, we end up with pages here in that category. Should it be a category redirect? What to? Thurstan 07:08, November 21, 2009 (UTC)

Query
Is Hermengarde de Toulouse (aft975-?) the same person as Ermengarde of Arles (975-1033)? They seem to have the same mother, husband and children, but different fathers. Thurstan 23:03, December 10, 2009 (UTC)

Rtol -- question
You edited my post for GEORGE SCHOEFFEL. Can you help me to add birth/death dates to his children? I cannot figure out how to do it -- and don't have all day to, besides!!! If you would, I would gladly just email you the dates to add??? But, you'll probably tell me that I'd never learn that way...

Thank you.

hberry

Hberry 18:00, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Veranderingen
De structuur van de site is nogal veranderd, met name om de boel sneller te maken.

De tijdrovende templates staan nu allemaal op de /sensor pagina:

De pagina's /tree en /descendants  lezen gevevens van de sensor pagina.

De volgorde van aanmaak is dus persoon, persoon/sensor, persoon/tree, persoon/descendants.

Echter, je kunt ook alleen persoon aanmaken. Een bot voegt dan later de andere drie pagina's toe. rtol 09:32, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

/info pagina's zijn overbodig. rtol 09:33, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * bedankt voor deze aanvullende info, ik heb nog wat gestoeid met wel bestaande oude info pagina's, maar verdwenen hoofdpagina's; kennelijk hebben die oude info pages geen functie meer en zouden vewijderd moeten worden ?--Fred Bergman 09:37, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

People with question-marks in their dates
I notice Beatrix von Schwaben (?-aft1025). I should keep an eye on progress with her in case it helps me understand my recently reported problems. Keep up the great work! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:33, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Use of Familypedia material on Rodovid
Please have a look at http://nl.rodovid.org/wk?title=Sjabloon:SCat&action=edit

Fred has copied our code without a hint of the acknowledgment that our licence requires. He's probably not allowed to do that even with acknowledgment, because the licences are not the same.

He's possibly allowed to copy his Dutch version of the English instructions, but that's debatable. It's a fairly close translation, isn't it?

Would you like to offer an opinion?

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:44, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Energetic new creator of pages with forms
Thank you for the alert. I looked through the 400+ edits. Look good in principle! Departures from naming conventions are mostly (as far as I can judge from just looking - though you have more experience with the medieval naming) just omitting dates. That's not a problem, as long as we (e.g. any of us who are not quite as clued-up as you are on technical stuff and can therefore tinker) eventually move them to "standard" names then convert the redirects to hndis pages. And if it's the Wikipedia name it's good - makes us more findable. Tell me if I've missed anything significant! Email, if you prefer, in the next couple of hours or "tomorrow" (as it's 2211 here). — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:11, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

About Ava de Ribagorza
I think that is a rule of introduction of NAMES in WIKIA that one must use the same used in WIKIPEDIA.

So I consider "Ava de Ribagorza" (an Spanish name) more adequate than "AVA DE RIBAGORCE" (as you have copied from the French site).

But, no problem, since you are a very active contributor of this site (almost 30 thousands editions), I left the reason to you!

Feel free and easy to change everything (as usual)!

Sorting in surname categories
As I noted on Forum:Should I nuke Defaultsort lines?, the SMW equivalent of DEFAULTSORT isn't working properly. It should have an exception for surname categories, as our old Surname did. Surname categories are starting to look silly. Please tell me where I can find the coding so as to try to fix it. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:00, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Gelderland and its other spellings and its rulers
Thanks for keeping an eye on me. I had seen a few earlier ones, but the line that interests me tonight goes up through some women.

I think we should be making clearer rules about which language of Wikipedia we use for page names.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:12, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

Creating facts pages from info pages
If you know how to do that easily, please do Mary Stewart, Princess of Scotland (1453-1488), who is surrounded by facts page people. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:49, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Anne de Foix
http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Louis_II_of_Hungary_%281506-1526%29&curid=161543&diff=464970&oldid=464963

Which Wikipedia calls her that? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:26, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Wijerd Jelckama (c1490-1523)
Our Frisian contributors may be the best to watch Wijerd Jelckama (c1490-1523) and make its links to person pages go to redirects that lead to the proper Familypedia pages for the people.

His relative has a page but it redirects to a forum. It should have a link to the forum but should be moved to a standard page with dates and then copy whatever's suitable from WP.

Then we can look for the descendants that one or two of our enquirers are hoping for.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:44, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

People on Wikipedia pages
Please offer some thoughts about User blog:Robin Patterson/Wikipedia's people pages‎. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:03, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Software problems
Affecting you too.

Wife: Adelheid von Laufen (?-?)">

Such is life. (PS, I've added to my blog item.)

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:40, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

More documentation for Project Charlemagne
Please check that my addition is about right. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:10, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Redlinks in the To Do list
Today you say "However, I also note that

you are adding people in generation N but not deleting people from generation N-1, and that

you are adding redlinks."


 * 1) Adding - yes; not deleting parents - no; my first action in that part of the page was to delete a lady whose children had been found; the few I have added are children of others whose "known" children are all located
 * 2) Yes; on review I see that I had not taken in all of the simple rules or had later forgotten details (and I may add a note lower down to make it clearer); however, it seems to me that a person who appears to have no children is barely worth creating a page for (especially if no birth or death years), because he or she will not add to the later generations of the Project until he or she finds some; do you want them to sit unheralded on their parents' pages?

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 08:25, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

How to beat the bot and get someone showing the "Order" number
Someone's sensor page says she is Order 11. Her spouses have no "orders". What exactly is needed to ensure that her child's sensor page shows Order 12? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 08:25, April 10, 2010 (UTC)

Automatically, you say. Well, if that had been true I would not have asked. Thank you for the very detailed cure. From some of its detail, I presume that the "automatically" applies only after parent and child each have a sensor page that links to the other person and has been edited since that state of affairs arose. Onwards and downwards!! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:33, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

You invited a note if someone didn't get an order despite going through the procedure. John Pollok of Pollok (c1590-aft1610)/sensor had no Order after its recent save. His mother's sensor page was saved again just before that, and has "Order of Charlemagne	28 +". Each sensor page links to the other person. I'm off to bed very soon, late again. I'll see if you have a solution by morning. On this page will be fine, thanks! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 15:25, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for whatever you did to him (as mentioned on my talk page), and presumably to his descendants. I'm Order 40 at the moment but I have a few other lines to complete! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:26, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Sensor pages - manual creation and editing
You say "Sensor pages should have sensor on. detect tabs is but a small part of sensor. Note that if you break a sensor page, the fault will percolate up and down the family tree." I don't think I've ever added "detect tabs". The trouble with adding "sensor" is that the page often ends up with two sets of them, one from me and one presumably added by the form process. When I see one at the "edit" stage I usually delete it if I suspect that it is one that was manually added. If there is a detect tabs above it, I leave that alone.

What's the foolproof way to create a sensor page when the form won't do it? (We need to have it on the Help:Sensor page page.)

How does one "break" a sensor page and what "fault" percolates and how does it percolate if nobody touches the page?

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:14, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarifications on my talk page. I can more confidently update the help page. Now a related observation: The last two sensor pages I have created using the standard form have looked like this:

So does something need updating to add the tabs thing? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 06:44, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Your response says "... Please try and create a new sensor page and report back if detect tabs is not there or twice". You seem to have fixed it, thank you. I created Mahlon Pitney (1858-1924)/sensor and saw that detect tabs was in place. But the page seemed to have doubled up (as discussed earlier). So I went on and created the descendants page. Now the sensor page is all OK without any doubling. Mysterious!! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:33, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sensor pages using standard form
All that I have created today have been done using the link in "Edit with form" after creating the tree subpage. Those that I have noticed before saving did not have the tabs detect. If I think it's a problem, I'll let you know some other day. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:26, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Showfacts descendants
Please have a look or another look at Template talk:Showfacts descendants. Questions and requests there. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:09, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

Project Charlemagne/others
Not meant to be a complete study. See the introduction. I thought of properties, but for what I'm doing initially (just working down to the youngest person in Order 9 then beyond) it's very easy to carry on manually. I have all six sites sitting in windows and just move each one on for each Order. Recording the links, which can then go straight onto the individuals' pages. Have we got an extra child for KdG (Rothilde (?-852), childless) and for Chas the Bald (Hersinde (?-aft916), orphan at present but with many descendants)? - seems we may have. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:47, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Rotrude (800-?)
Please study Talk:Rotrude (800-?). We may have to abandon a lot of nice short lines, regrettably. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 17:06, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Sensor update process needs fixing
See Talk:Hedwige de Namur (c1035-c1070)/sensor. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 02:14, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Naming standards
Long names will be quite easy to shorten as soon as we have an agreed naming standard. Until then, some readers will appreciate seeing all of the names that were passed from one generation to another and those that were not. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:55, April 28, 2010 (UTC)

Charlemagne
Charlemagne looks rather like a cut-down version of Charlemagne, and has some (removable) errors boldly displayed in his child boxes and some curiosities in his facts lists. (Why are his facts there?) But his /tree goes one generation further, I think, than what I recall seeing on WP. A link to it from Charlemagne called "Five generations of ancestors" might stick. Tell me if you think the presence of a WP admin might help.

His /children page is moving towards a similar state of comprehensiveness. That and his main page might be enhanced if we had pages for more of his partners, maybe using other-language Wikipedias and our usual crop of researchers' websites.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 02:05, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

A state is now a nation-subdiv-1 (or something like that)
Of course it is. Anyone knows that. (You should not have needed four edits?!!!) Anyway, I'll revert the date range and the "state" to more specific items so that it's a more realistic demo. There may be things wrong with the other subpages too, but that one's a very good example to show off to the world. Thanks, pal. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:28, May 4, 2010 (UTC)

Page names matching Wikipedia names
Thurstan and I have been creating pages that will become redirects to our pages. He nobly (and/or cleverly) does them one at a time. Sometimes I find it much more efficient to do several at once then do the redirecting later (or hope that someone else will be inspired to), and the alsoWP makes it easy to grab the WP article if any of it might be useful to improve or create our page. When the article becomes a redirect, it will be very handy for the articles we have copied that link to it. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 15:23, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Creative fiction
Your response was in the right direction. I've removed some absolutely unverifiable material and informed the author. Leave the page in "Globals missing- person" for a while. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:30, June 7, 2010 (UTC)

"?", "?", "?-?"

 * "Question marks are not very informative and they cause problems with forms (as they are a reserved character in the user interface).
 * "It would be good to replace the question marks with something else." rtol 07:25, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Forum:Question marks causing problems

http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Forum:Standards_on_dateless_individuals&t=20100601142725#Work-around

"Skuli of Norway (?-?)‎‎"??? "Skuli of Norway (?-‎‎". "Skuli of Norway (‎‎"

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:12, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

How can a page be added to Gen 13 of the "To do" list if the individual's mother appears to have no page?
Bard of Rein (c1150-1194); Gilbert I de Gevaudan (1065-1112); Hameline de Beaupréau (1107-?). — Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:04, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

And Mathilde van Saffenberg (c1120-1145), whose page you added to Gen 14 on 16 April, but whose displayed mother's page is a red link and definitely does not exist. 14:13, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

OK, I've read your reply, referring me back to the algorithm, which I once once made more watertight but which you then reverted to its flawed state.

The flaw (addressed by my edit that you reverted) is here:
 * Add the children to the to-do-list for generation N+1.

They should NOT go into N+1 if their other parent's Order number is N-1 or lower.

Moreover, on the reasoning you have today used to justify wholesale delisting of pages of people who had an Order number but did not have all children with individual pages, no page (even of a child whose page has just been created in accordance with the "simple" rules) should be added to any group ("to-do-list") unless the Order numbers of both parents are absolutely certain (e.g., don't add the page for any individual whose mother seems not to have a page, as above, because you can't be sure of the child's ultimate Order number).

But if someone has added such a page to a particular group, apparently in good faith, surely anyone wanting to delete that page from its group (e.g. Gen 12) should check that there was an actual possibility that that page's order number could later change to a lower figure (e.g. 11 or 10). You did not check all of the nineteen Generation 12 people in the 78 minutes between my addition and your deletion of them, unless there is something seriously wrong with the statement, higher up on that page, that "all individuals of generation 9 have a page" (added around the time generations 8 and 9 were declared "done"). Example (possibly not the only one): Louis VII of France is currently in Gen 12, thanks to grandparent Humbert in Gen 10. The other grandparents are Gen 11. If "all individuals of generation 9 have a page", there is no way that any of Louis VII's grandparents can get into Gen 9 and therefore no way that Louis VII can ever progress closer than his current Gen 12. So he should stay until all of his children have their own pages.

The manager of Project Charlemagne may lose his chief supporter if he again reverts serious work without discussion or at least checking the validity of the reversion. The project has the potential to be a real showpiece for any of the thousands of people around the world who are keen on medieval genealogy and eventually for more thousands as it moves inexorably towards more recent centuries. Let's work on making it as good as we can.

On a lighter note, but still dealing with the paqes mentioned in the heading:
 * At least one of the "motherless" Gen 13 people listed at the top may have suffered from what we might call querulitis: the failure of the software to handle question-marks in page names. I clicked the link and was presented with the format for creating a new page for someone whose page name ended in "(" or "-". Possibly all three have the same problem. We need to approach their mothers some other way and remove the question-marks that are or may be making valid links appear as "red-link-style" buttons that don't work as they should. I've done that for Charlemagne's children and am trying to clean up my ancestors and others with question-marks that could produce querulitis.

Good night, friend!! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:13, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Henry's Ahnentafel
Please leave Henry's Ahnentafel alone for an hour or two. I have a big edit conflict to sort out — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:52, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

I just got it sorted and there's another one. If that's you, PLEASE STOP. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:03, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Stop deleting my work. You can add what you like but I get really cross when people delete my work without consultation. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:13, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for stopping. (I have rarely "left" before 1 am NZ time, which is 1200 UTC in summer and 1300 UTC in this half of the year, and I sometimes go an hour or two later than that.) I fully expect to get more of Henry's ancestors here, but I thought I had got all up to his "127" from his sensor page, which may need another tickle. I've restored notes about the Henry Project because it will help us not to bother looking for more info there if Baldwin has less than what we have. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:36, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

I've finished with Henry II for the night. Next day's work can include the rest of the Project links up to the end of Gen 10, after which it gets more tedious because that site's table stops there. I'm not planning to add more blank numbers to that page, because the people are really thinning out and it's unnecessary scrolling over blocks that are never likely to be populated. So I don't mind who adds what from now on, but I don't want to lose anything I've typed. You have a bigger and much more important project to work on, and you are definitely the best person to work on it at present. Our imitation Henry Project may just encourage some other contributor (e.g. Will) to fill some gaps. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:48, June 27, 2010 (UTC)

Standard templates
On the subject of tidiness and uniformity and manual edits, please see Template talk:Footer. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:14, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Hallo
Dus als ik het goed begrijp kunnen familielinnen van Nederlandse families komen? En jij spreekt Nederlands? Dat is cool. Ik zou graag willen helpen, maar het is zo groot :) --Station7 20:55, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

IK had nog een vraag. kun je het ook overnemen van andere sites? Dan bedoel ik mensen die hun stamboom op internet zetten. Ik deed 3 jaar geleden ook aan stambomen, maar als ik het zo zie blijft het interessant.--Station7 05:38, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

2 vragen. Ik wil niet klinken als een nieuwsgierig aagje :), maar ben jij deze persoon. En wat moet je doen als mensen niet hun naam op een pagina willen hebben? --Station7 14:27, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

De pagina die ik zojuist van mijn eigen gemaakt, het lukt niet helemaal. Kun je helpen? Dan weet je ook meteen wie ik ben.--Station7 14:43, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Op jouw pagina, bij de sectie Siblings staat geen spatie tussen 2 en December. Ik weet niwet hoe ik dat kan doen voor jouw :) --Station7 15:18, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Hoe kan ik pagina's editen? Hier werkt het anders dan normaal. ik kan het hier niet editen, is er een spciaal sjabloon/template voor?--Station7 17:25, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Het leukste aan stambomen vindt ik van dat bijvoorbeeld een nicht met een neef een kind kreeg. Ik stam toevallig van zo'n familie af, waardoor ik dus 2 x afstam van 2 belangrijke "aartsvaders" of "stamvaders" zoals ik ze dan noem. Je komt er wel later achter. Of ik de stamboom van mijn moeder is andere koek. Ik heb een goeie connectie met mijn moeder, niet met mijn vader.--Station7 12:52, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

info date
I'm pleased you improved info date. Needs another tweak, I think - see my edit summary.

Now can you and User:AMK152 put your heads together to get a cut-down version of it on the Main Page as suggested on its talk page?

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 04:25, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

With the Wikia new look now settling in, could you revive or revise this idea? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 00:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

showfacts biography
Please fix it so it never displays "Rhoda E Place's ancestors are from ." on a page. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:26, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Charles II of Napels (1254-1309)‎
Shouldn't he be Charles II of Naples? Thurstan 07:22, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Demo-query has had something wrong with it
http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Semantic_MediaWiki/demo_query-range is meant to be something we can show off. But it has Ermengarde from the 10th century, displaying a 20th-century image. Please help fix it or tell me if it's impossible. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:21, September 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Now I can confidently lead people to that demo among others. And it may look slightly more appealing to US viewers now that I've added Pocahontas. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:30, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Categories for standard subpages
Your recent tree subpage edits described as "(Replaced content with "") " have resulted in pages that are not in the hidden Category:Tree pages, which is what they are if done using either the form or Thurstan's system. Maybe it doesn't matter in the long term! But it may result in confusion. I've not looked at recent sensor or descendants pages of yours, but if there are similar divergences from the standard we should perhaps start a forum discussion about them so that our major types of pages relate properly and consistently to others of the same type. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 03:57, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Your note to me and discussion with Thurstan, about whether categories should be in standard templates, are clearly related to the above heading. As you are clearly convinced that it affects page display, all Familypedians are potentially affected, so please set out your views in a forum item. That way, more people see the discussion and it can be categorized or linked to so that there is less chance that other contributors will waste time or reduce performance. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 00:55, October 23, 2010 (UTC)

Henry
Henry Arbuthnot (1803-1875) has no Swedish ancestors. I understand the way the template works but there should be an override. Arbuthnot 07:24, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Language problem
Please see if you can add anything to Forum:Multilingual support problems. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 03:43, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Reynhardus Adrianus Haentjens (1754-1799) (.nl)
Several of us have had a crack at the above. Maybe it's time for our resident Dutch speaker and SMW guru to give it a bit more tidying then move on using it as an example of aspects of the multilingual articles system that need more development. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:13, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Help:Children
Please have a look at the new page Help:Children and improve or correct where practicable. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 00:38, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Help needed
Templates are a mess. I'm looking through showfacts person, and I'm seeing code which I believe to be pointless, correct me if i'm wrong, I haven't used the variable extension before. such as where these variables are never used again, also they aren't even getting , they are just getting text assigned to them. So the first thing i would suggest is to remove those from that templates. Secondly as I suggested on Thurstans talkpage would remove those 9 duplicate code with their only difference being the variable name. So basically first thing to do, remove pointless code, then condense it, then fix errors. S im A nt 20:58, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Scratch that about variables, that is the old parser function i think for #set, it needs to be changed . S im A nt 21:10, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * everything semantic is just a mess... might need to start from scratch on those. S im A nt 21:32, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think you have to remove the asdfa just change the

to what you want it to display. S im A nt 22:04, November 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * The coding seemed to be working well in March. (Though some code seeming to be currently unused is probably designed to be used when we extend the person form to cover more types of facts about people.) We took a few months to adjust to the SF upgrade but we seemed to have got it right again. Then the unannounced cutoff and only partly successful patch came from Wikia. That needs to be addressed. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:51, November 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Losing the "string" codes would be most regrettable, because that's how we display labels etc in a user's preferred language. Based on, I believe. What is an alternative? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:51, November 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * The translations can be re added later if feasible. I'm working on redoing that template from scratch, can you direct me to a person using the old template that has a lot of marriages? For now i'm working on basic stuff, later i'll add properties to the mix. Also, is there any accounting for half-siblings I should know about? S im A nt 04:37, November 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * What does the variable, ifmarried-g2 stand for? S im A nt 23:09, November 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I started from scrap on a test template, could you replace {{showfacts person... with "{{User:Simant/Sandbox...", on a page and click preview, and tell me what you think? S im A nt 23:35, November 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * What is the difference between person tempalte and showfacts person? Also, are there any places where queries are used besides testing if pages exist, and language conversion? S im A nt 00:02, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see any queries at all on Showfacts children or any of the templates inside it. All inline queries that i have seen seem to be in template:showfact, template:getfact, template:string, Template:SMW_templates, all of the other templates are just setting properties... S im A nt 19:44, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

re: Help Needed
Hi there,

Sorry to hear that you're having trouble. I've passed your information onto our community support team, who will be following up.

Cheers,

- JeskaD 21:20, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Setting properties
To set a property so that it is displayed on the page use PropertyName::PropertyValue, you can also use WikiText view on page. If you just want to set a property that isn't viewed by the user as wikitext use S im A nt  18:46, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the showfact and getfact templates, but the proper syntax for So you would need to do  You should use |link=none if that result is being put back into a template and used for further results, because Property:Parent is of type page (which helps with redirects). I'm happy to help with these questions, i Just can't work with the category structure it is too much of a mess... S im A nt  22:01, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just noticed you were putting your tests at the bottom of the page, put them at the top. So that the bug with queries asking for the data on the same page does not occur, also only the first one asked of the tests will work. S im A nt 22:15, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

SMW appears to be functioning again for multiple queries about the same page. S im A nt 22:48, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

Tree pages
You seem to know more than most of us about how sensor pages get re-saved. Please add your opinion and suggestions to Help talk:Tree page. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 23:46, January 17, 2011 (UTC)

Nobility
Of course you are right. What I was trying to do was the first step. There were articles called Spanish nobility and articles called nobitily of Russia. What I did was to convert all of them to Nobility of ...... Now all these are consistent and the alternative categories have a message that they should not be used.

The same problem arises at other levels to. We have noble houses of Portugal or Portuguese noble houses. This is the same for royalty and others. I do not know if I will be able to change all of them. But I agree with you that as a general rule we should prefer the type of categories .... of Portugal and avoid the type Portuguese.... It would be impossible to determine exactly the nationality of all these families, whereas the country is not controversial. Are the Bourbon kings of Spain Spanish kings or the Hohenzollern kings of Romania Romanian kings etc? There are many categories which would have to be corrected to create a consistent category system.Afil 23:37, February 6, 2011 (UTC)

Good work
Something's not broken. I created a page for a previously undocumented son of Henry VIII of England. On creating his sensor page I was delightedly startled to see:

Order of Charlemagne: 25

Apparent similarity to Charlemagne: 5.9604644775391E-8

Coefficient of Inbreeding: 1.05499e-5

Robin Patterson 02:55, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

WARGS creator
I'm concentrating on William's work for a while. See William Addams Reitwiesner (1954-2010)/sensor, for example. Robin Patterson 11:26, February 15, 2011 (UTC)