User talk:Robin Patterson

(See archives:
 * User talk:Robin Patterson/archive 2005-04 to 2005-10
 * User talk:Robin Patterson/archive 2005-11 to 2006-10)
 * User talk:Robin Patterson/archive 2006-10 to 2007-06)
 * User talk:Robin Patterson/archive 2007-06 to 2007-09)
 * User talk:Robin Patterson/archive 2007-09 to 2007-10)
 * User talk:Robin Patterson/archive 2007-10 to 2008-11)
 * User talk:Robin Patterson/archive 2008-12 to 2009-06)

Come back soon, please
I hope your wikibreak is not too long. But it is well deserved. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 11:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It is summer here, we go a long weekend with our camper enjoying "Deventer op stelten" streettheater

2011 we hope to rent a camper in New Sealand for 2 month travelling--Fred Bergman 11:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you!
Hi Robin,

Thank you for your words of encouragement - yes, once I found how to use the "Create info page" and related articles I was off and running!

I see what you mean regarding the Marriage tag - I've updated a couple and will work the rest soon.

One question I have is with regards to maiden names vs. surnames. As you might have seen I've been putting (maiden) names in parens and using married names as surnames. Your advice regarding the usual/standard method used here would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks again for your help!

Blhotka 20:22, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Our SMW statistics
One reason we have lost values is that now "ahnentafel" and "descendants" are not set by info categories. Thurstan 07:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Indeed. I restored this, as well as the inbreeding and descendency tests. The descendants list and the Ahnentafel require re-saving every page in a particular order (old to young for the Ahnentafel, young to old for the descendants list). Switching off set ahn and set dsc for only a few days implies that we can start anew. rtol 15:13, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

CSV limit
See Life expectancy at the very bottom. SMW allows for the creation of a comma-separated file (that can easily be manipulated in MS Excel, in this case to make a graph of year of birth v age at death). However, only 500 rows can be downloaded. Phlox says this limit was set at installation, so I need to discuss this with someone at Wikia. Can you kindly point me there? rtol 22:21, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't say it was set at installation. I said that I suspect it may be configurable.  Please research the setting in semantic mediawiki documentation.  Once you know what the variable is (if this indeed true), then we may proceed with getting the request to wikia.   00:26, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

AWB
AWB is marked as minor. rtol 12:06, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Graphs
Can you kindly put in a request that Google Charts for MediaWiki be installed? It is the same technology as what's behind the pie chart on Genealogy:Statistics/SMW tidbits but with code that is far easier. rtol 06:22, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I contacted them. I thought, mistakenly, that only administrators and bureaucrats could talk to them. rtol 09:37, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Revert of alsoWP with less justification than Phlox thought necessary
"Might" be on WP is a weasel word as explained on the AlsoWP talk page. It is unacceptable for an encyclopedic reference and is against WP guidelines. Please support your position why this is not on the case on the talk page of AlsoWP. 08:25, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Think about it. It's like saying you are "kind of" pregnant. If there was an external link on wikipedia that said some other site "may" have an article on the subject, the link would last about two seconds before an experienced editor would delete it without comment. I can't say this any more delicately. It's a junk link with the weaselly non assertion that there "may be a link". 08:39, 19 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I have been thinking about it, off and on for months. I hope you examined the edit summary so as to see the stated justification for the reversion. Clearly a better expression is needed while still avoiding what you did, which was making several dozen or hundred pages say something untrue (a much worse crime, guaranteed to put off some new readers). I'll put some ideas on the template talk page. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:31, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you give specific examples of the classes of articles that would be untrue? Are they all of the form people from placename?  If so, what are the patterns of the article names?  Do they all belong to specific categories?   16:49, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The two classes that spring to mind are the hndis pages and the county-related categories, about which I have said more on the  alsoWP talk page. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:28, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's a case of a junk link. The contributor does not know that there is anything on wikipedia for person disambiguation pages, and in the vast majority of cases there isn't one.  Even a "Search Wikipedia" link would be filler.  Seems to me the solution is to delete AlsoWP from those pages, and add it only when a link is known.   17:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

User pages
Interesting things you are doing there. Some of it was overdue. Just take care, please, not to make anyone feel that their privacy is threatened!

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I only use information they used theirselves also. I try to stimulate persons to contribute and I think it is usefull that persons can find fellow contributors from their own country.--Fred Bergman 12:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

category redirect.
"Fred, #REDIRECT is not designed for categories. Please leave well alone and don't do any more like this: http://genealogy.wikia.com/index.php?title=Category:Streefkerk_Surname&diff=0&oldid=219195

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:51, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I try to improve category mistakes, but how do I change the wrong name of a wanted category ?

Wrong is (born,married,died,etc in) America, existing and right is United States--Fred Bergman 10:19, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Use category redirect (as I had done on that example) so that nobody tries to re-create the category. But each page that is currently wanting to be in that category must be edited to put it in the correct one; bots can help do several category redirects in one session, I think: check with User:AMK152 or rtol. Thank you for making an effort! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:16, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Main page in Dutch
"Fred, please see http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Main_page:_Familienforschung_und_Genealogie-Wiki#Dutch and add a comment."


 * You can count on me. I will cooperate to translate to Dutch, but tomorrow I leave again for a short camper trip.--Fred Bergman 10:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Charlemagne
While set order of Charlemagne can be done manually, it should not. Humans introduce error, and as information percolates so do the errors. Restoring the damage would be a lot of work. rtol 06:41, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't remember ever using it myself. I've not kept up with the changes in that area. I guess I should study it anyway. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:51, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:Welcome
Fred, why have you categorized it as "outdated"? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 12:42, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi Robin !
 * as you obviously saw, I am busy to try improving this site and then I discover things that look double or outdated. I changed this to outdated because I see almost every day a new version:--Fred Bergman 12:49, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * [[Image:180px-Sasha Kopf's Celtic knot ring.jpg|right|160px|thumb|Sasha Kopf's Celtic knot ring]]

Haeremai, welcome, talofa, Willkommen, bienvenue, welkom
Hello, and welcome to Familypedia, the Genealogy wiki! We volunteers hope you can continue making contributions to articles and/or discussion and other improvements.

If you are new to Wikia or wikis in general, a visit to Help:Contents will be well worth while. And all intending contributors, even those experienced with wikis, will get something of value from that page because our "Help" pages are much more than an editing guide.

You could check out the "Community portal" for an outline of some of the main features, links to pages that tell you how to edit, and the link to a guided tour of selected pages that illustrate ways you may enjoy using the site.

Please consider adding a "Babel" template to your user page, if you have not already done so, so that others know which languages you are comfortable reading. The site is basically in English but there is no prohibition on other languages and we have ways of linking to translations. We already have, for example, over 100 kB in Spanish, dozens of pages in French, and a little Russian and Norwegian, with easy ways of linking languages.

A good place to start each visit is the "recent changes" page, where all edits and their authors (anonymous or signed-in) are listed. Bookmark it, maybe. (And help delete spam - unpleasant but a fact of life.)

There's an email list system used to get messages to all listed members: see Genealogy:Mailing list. "Traffic" is not high, so you will not risk flooding your inbox by joining.

You're invited to add your name to a category for your country - see Category:Contributors and create a category if yours is not there.

Discussion of any aspect of the site, and enquiries, can be made through the Forum or on the "discussion" page associated with each article. Sign and date your contributions there (by typing " ~ " or clicking the "signature" button), so that readers know "who to talk to" and whether your message is probably still of current interest. If you write on a user's "talk" page, that user will get an alerting message on next visit.

It would be good if you could indicate on your user page how you discovered this site.

Please leave a message on my talk page if you think I may help with anything! -- Moli.wikia (Talk) 12:47, 18 August 2009

Mistaken edit to the Info_pages/person_article_template
Hi Robin,

I'm a new user struggling with the learning curve. I seem to have edited the following template thinking it was an info sheet for one of my pages. I tried to undo it, but don't think I did so correctly.

http://genealogy.wikia.com/wiki/Genealogy_talk:Info_pages/person_article_template

Please help me straighten it out. I realize this could be a big deal since it's a high-traffic template.

Jschulte 18:38, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

FYI...
In case you missed it on your watchlist, I provided the requested information at F:RfA. Best —DeGraffJE talk 17:27, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

I've discovered this page...
Probably searching for someone's particular genealogy. SavetheArchduke 18:42, December 4, 2009 (UTC)
 * By page I meant website. SavetheArchduke 16:24, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

You were right about the country lists
Hi Robin. Hope I find you here. I put the country list on my user page to remember the link as it seemed a useful tool for later on. The lists in the flu wiki are useful variations. Thanks for the tip. Dr Joe Kiff 00:34, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

API Key
Hi Robin, I have two pages where the Google Maps no longer display because they need new API Keys, error message on page reads "This web site needs a different Google Maps API key. A new key can be generated...."? I've visited the relevant Google website http://code.google.com/apis/maps/ what I should do from there or if it is something relevant to FamilyPedia in general and whether they should be doing something for the whole site etc.

The relevant pages are:-

http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Baglin_%28surname%29 and http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Edward_William_Burgess_Baglin_(1906-1969)

Do you or your colleagues have any help and or advice?

07:56, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

tree and sensor subpages - other-place fields
Hi Robin,

I am back on Familypedia after a nine-month hiatus and I am generally pleased with the changes I see. It appears that tree and sensor subpages have been created automatically for existing person pages. Where can I find information on these pages: how to create and edit them.

Also I see that in converting to the new info page form, the new other-places fields have been filled with a concatenation of other place fields and these other-places fields are displayed in quotes follwing the individual place fields, which of course is redundant. I find that when I change the other-place fields to blank the redundancy goes away. Before I undertake to blank out all the other-place fields in all the info pages I have already entered, I want to check with you whether I might be doing something I will regret. If this redundancy is a problem generally for converted info pages, could someone create a bot to blank out all other-place fields that were created during the conversion of existing info pages?

I see also that a new contributors section is redundant with previously entered contributors sections. I don't suppose anything can be done to automatically transfer old contributors to the new section.

Thanks, DennisDoty 17:55, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Confuzzled
Hi Robin, I was quite confused for a moment by your message on another wiki... Then I saw you were replying to my welcome. Just so you know, that was an automated welcome from me... if there are no active admins on a wiki, the system uses a name from one of the community team :) I hope all's well with you and Familypedia - sannse (talk) 01:18, February 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not like you to be confused, my friend! Actually I wouldn't have bothered normally, but on that particular empty wiki I thought I could give a couple more of the red links a bit of a readable target redirecting here. Now I've found the latest almost empty Genealogy Wiki... — Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:23, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Question marks
A questions mark as date of birth or date of death indeed causes problems. We had almost converged on a solution just before Phlox went away. We should resume that discussion next week when he's back. rtol 13:27, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Fred on Rodovid
It's not nice what Fred is doing. Knowing him, it probably did not occur to him that he cannot do this.

I would drop a note to one of the bureaucrats at Rodovid. I have nothing against sharing data and templates, but acknowledgement should be given. rtol 13:36, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

SCat
(That was a very short wikibreak!)

Why do you want Template:SCat/nl deleted? (Five categories use it and there could be thousands more eventually.)

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 10:32, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, Robin. I was copying SCAT/nl to Rodovid, but it didn't work, so I wanted to delete it on Rodovid, but I made apparently a mistake and did it here...--Fred Bergman 21:28, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations
I seem to be the first person congratulating you here on continuing to put energy into a genealogy wiki. Enjoy! Robin Patterson 14:01, 21 February 2010 (EET)


 * Hi again Robin ! I had a lot of inspiration and I learned a lot here on Familypedia that will be give good results to Rodovid since now I am a sysop there ! Perhaps you will cooperate with me to answer my questions if I meet problems ? Kind regards,--Fred Bergman 22:22, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Robin, it is unfortunate that Rodovid and Familypedia not go together, because with the advantages of both would create a much better site than either is now![http://en.rodovid.org/wk/Template:StatisticsPersonsFamilies Rodovid Language Databases at a Glance for all the localizations. ] --Fred Bergman 05:22, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Beard5
Can you kindly have a look at user:beard5. He's made over 400 edits in a short time, all of which violate our naming conventions. He also introduced a number of duplicates.

I sent two friendly messages, but to no avail. rtol 08:35, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

George William Barnes (1841)
Hi Robin, Thanks for help and advice. However, I tried as you suggest to move the duplicated George William Barnes (1841) page to his son Benjamin, but the system would not allow it. Therefore, I moved him to Philip Barnes (1879), another son of George, thinking that I would correct the duplication in that way. The move was successful, but now it shows Philip as a son of George Barnes (1815), not of George Barnes (1841) and of course the box info on the right is incorrect (as it refers to Philip's parents).

I read that I need to request an administrator to delete a page. I am sorry that I am unfamiliar of how this site works, but could you please delete Philip Barnes now - hopefully the duplication of George William Barnes itself has now gone - and then I should be back with all the correct links in place. Many thanks John.

Old Bones 20:48, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Defaultsort
I know nothing about Defaultsort. You'll have to be patient and wait for Phlox to return. At that time, we'll need to discuss categorisation more generally, as a lot of categories (incl. surnames) are redundant because of SMW. rtol 05:53, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Gelre / Gelderland / Guelders
Note that the earlier Gelres are there already.

I suspect that your Arnold, Duke of Gelderland (1410-1473) is a grandson of Maria van Gelre (?-1397). rtol 12:54, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * See http://www.thepeerage.com/p469.htm#i4689 and "Marie von Geldern" on http://www.thepeerage.com/p10724.htm#i107239 — Robin Patterson (Talk) 20:36, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I keep an eye out for duplicates, not on you.
 * I'll rename Arnold when I've figured out who he is. "Duke of Gelderland" is weird, because it is half Dutch, half English, and because present-day Gelderland only roughly corresponds to the historical duchy of Gelre. rtol 14:38, March 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Mary now has a proper tree
 * The Dutch wikipedia traces her father back for several generation. rtol 19:23, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Greetings, Ahnentafels and other musings
Hi Robin,

Thank you for your support and words of encouragement so far.

I guess that I was of the philosophy that the more types of information and navigation options displayed on each page the better and hadn't honestly really considered the implications on server load or the fact that such limitations may exist. Although, if this is the case, then I tend to agree... particularly given that no extra generations are displayed.

However, along similar lines I also tend to wonder about the categorisation of locations to the "nth" degree and what implications such a policy may hold for the future, for example, when a researcher may be trying to search for a particular matching individual but is unsure of the exact place of birth other than a general location or region, especially for very common names (e.g. a John Smith born in either 1885/1886 somewhere on the Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire border).

Searching through every possible individual with the matching name within the relevant Surname category, or alternatively through every possible birth location category, may prove unfeasible in such a circumstance even if the exact person is already on Familypedia somewhere.

I'm sure that the Semantic MediaWiki software may be able to provide a cleverer solution to such a problem somehow by discounting those individuals which can be eliminated automatically (and would be something that would really set this website apart).

I suppose that this is only an issue for the far future though when many hundreds of thousands of individuals may be in the database, and is a bridge that may only have to be crossed when we get there! I'm the type of person that often likes to ponder over the "bigger picture" and explore what sort of new and exciting possibilities the future may hold. So far, this website appears to offer great promise and unique new opportunities (global collaboration and consensus surely trumps the error prone aggregate mess that Ancestry.com can create!).

Long may this great concept flourish!

Pmalish 03:40, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

What are you doing changing David Rogers death fro 1880+ to after 1879
I would like an explanation why youy felt it was neccisary to change the Date? David Rogers is in the 1880 census so he was alive at the time. He is not even your ancestor, if he is, what is your relation?

Help deleting
Robin, would you delete John Doty (c1682-/tree and John Doty (c1682-?)/sensor. Thanks, DennisDoty 16:53, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Oops, I did it again. Would you please delete Isaac Doty (bef1675- and Isaac Doty (bef1675-/tree. Thanks, DennisDoty 19:20, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Surname categories
I have just changed Showfacts person to fix the sort key for surname categories. Thurstan 00:09, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

You have done nothing wrong: I had just fixed it when I noticed your message to User:Rhojo45 to say that you were going to fix it, so I thought I'd better try to catch you before you tried. Thurstan 00:34, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

Anne de Foix not -Candale
Anne de Foix is so called in French. Girls take the family name (Foix) as they are not in the line of inheritance. Boys take the qualified family name (Foix-Candale), revoking their claim on the larger property (Foix). rtol 12:35, March 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * So maybe rtol should correct the English-language Wikipedia. — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:02, March 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is a lost cause. Let's get things right here. rtol 14:21, March 15, 2010 (UTC)

Naming Conventions and template
Okay, so I'm new here and admit I haven't had time to read ALL the available information, but...it seems like I'm missing something. I created a new person - unattached to anybody - Henry A. Meyer (1871-1957) I used the proper naming conventions, then went about filling in the info via the form. Then I clicked on his wife and did the same...why didn't the red link created by the form follow the naming conventions? I had to move the page from Margaret Heitmann to Margaret Heitmann (1873-1964).

Did I do something wrong, or will I have to account for this in every new page I create? Thanks, Lanica 02:33, March 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure. I'll make sure to be aware of it as I move forward.Lanica 20:46, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

Appearance of Familypedia
Hello Robin,

today I see Familypedia not with brown but with blue colours on my PC. Is this the new outfit of Familypedia? I cannot agree with this, because the colour blue come across cool on people. Cucullus 21:02, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Appearance of Familypedia
Hello Robin, today I see Familypedia not with brown but with blue colours on my PC. Is this the new outfit of Familypedia? I cannot agree with this, because the colour blue come across cool on people. Cucullus 21:03, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

The %3F trick
I see the %3F trick seems to be working for Edward Doty (1705-?). However, when I went to add a /tree page, there is no button for adding it on the edit with form screen. The %3F trick seems too complicated for the average user like me. We still need a fix to the create/update sensor page button. DennisDoty 13:28, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Census Images
Hi, I have a few census images I'd like to upload, but the discussion about naming conventions has stopped me for the moment. What would you suggest? It's a 1860 U.S. Census from Minnesota State, Wabasha County. I have several townships, so should I break them down further? Lake Township, Chester Township, etc?

Also, I see that there are very few user on this site, so I thought I'd just double check to see that I am welcome here. If you're still in beta and I'm here too early, let me know and I'll go away, for a while at least. If I can do anything to make this site better, I'd be willing to help out where I can...this is an excellent idea! As it stands I am interested in the filling out information on towns and people related to my own genealogy. But I love history and sociology as well, so I often get sidetracked by other peoples genealogy that is only tangentially connected to my own.

Thanks, Lanica 19:18, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Help
You made a page Pier Gerlofs Donia (c1480-1520) which looks pretty good. It is about the famous Frisian warlord Pier Gerlofs Donia, an ancestor of mine. Could you also make a similar page of Wijerd Jelckama, his nephew? His page is a copy of wikipedia article. Thanks in advance, Dr. Magnus 10:10, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Update?
Hi again. Sorry to bother you, but you often seem to be on line at the same time I am. I see people creating new pages for people, but the Forms error message is still up. I tried to start a new person yesterday, Arthur Francis Lynch (1863-1938), but after I entered all the information and hit save, all that came back was the gender. So, I guess the error is still valid. So how are the others creating the new people pages? Thanks again, Lanica 13:16, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Updates?
Hi again. Sorry to bother you, but you often seem to be on line at the same time I am. I see people creating new pages for people, but the Forms error message is still up. I tried to start a new person yesterday, Arthur Francis Lynch (1863-1938), but after I entered all the information and hit save, all that came back was the gender. So, I guess the error is still valid. So how are the others creating the new people pages? Thanks again, Lanica 13:17, March 31, 2010 (UTC)