User talk:Thurstan/Archive4


 * 2008 Archive
 * 2009 Archive
 * 2010 Archive

New people pages
Please: Happy New Year! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 14:00, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Remove "?" from names before creating more subpages
 * 2) Remember http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Standardizing_subpages_of_people_pages#Naming_standards - "/ancestors"

I'm sorry, did you think that I created Joost Duryea (bef1735-?)/Ancestors? All I did was categorize it. I have only created "/tree", "/descendants" and "/sensor" subpages for ages.

Happy New Year to you too. Thurstan 21:18, January 1, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think I got the impression that you had created that page. Maybe I was misled by the usual confusion of language in a Wikia e-mail. Whenever I do anything to a page with a "?" in its name, I remove the "?" if it's not too much trouble. In the above case, I see that you may have been doing a whole lot of categorising, which is indeed the situation where I might leave the "?" alone too. Robin Patterson 04:45, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Help
im struggling editing and creating articles

86.139.36.155 16:40, January 4, 2011 (UTC)Historylover86.139.36.155 16:40, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

Your updating of Template:Surname-stub
http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template:Surname-stub&diff=567205&oldid=178149 - can we have the new image too, please? — Robin Patterson (Talk) 13:16, January 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Done: sorry about neglecting that. Thurstan 21:10, January 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, mate. Robin Patterson 04:45, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Tree pages
You create tree pages that work. Example noted on my last edit to my talk page. Do you have any idea why older ones (such as the flagship Charlemagne/tree) don't? Maybe the mysterious trickle-down-bot is on holiday?? (On the subject of trickle-down, I hope Lake Burley Griffin is not at a dangerously high level.) — Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:51, January 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * I suspect that when SMW was switched off (which last happened about 13 Jan 2011) it disrupts things, I am not sure why. I have been re-saving existing "/sensor" pages to make the new trees work. Thurstan 02:54, January 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ongoing story at Help:Tree page and its talk page. Robin Patterson 04:45, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

February 2011
I thought I was copying what Andrei had told me about the ahnentafel-compact templates. Maybe you've changed them since? Please have a look at http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Templates_update#One_of_the_above_should_be_the_basis_for_.2Ftree_pages and add a note about where you have now taken us. Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 08:40, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

No, I haven't changed anything: they are exactly as the wikipedia documentation says: there are just numbered parameters that display whatever you tell it to. Thurstan 09:30, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

Query
Sorry, I forgot to log in when I made my recent edits to John William Ewing. Is there anyway to associate those changes to my Login (Lance Ewing)? Regards, Lance Ewing.


 * I don't believe so. The best you could do is leave a note somewhere on the page or perhaps its talk page which says that you used address 86.166.64.240‎ to edit the page on this date. Alternatively, you could log on and edit the page again (do something trivial, like leave an extra blank line in the middle somewhere) and make a note in the "Summary" about having forgotten to log on the time before. That way, when anyone looks at the "history" for the page, they will see you note. This is how I would solve it. Thurstan 06:42, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

Deleting pages that are easy to create
Example:

http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Template_talk:United_States_topic&s=wl

I think it is easier to blank them and protect them than to delete them.

— Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:23, January 21, 2011 (UTC)

I think the same consideration applies to the deletion of unaccompanied given names (by suppressing the redirect), e.g. http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Katie&s=wl. If we don't leave a redirect, someone is likely to re-create the page, either ignoring or not understanding the warning, and create good content that then has to be moved to its proper place. Robin Patterson 04:45, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Another example: Anderson County, Tennessee/1880-1899. Thank you for continued major contribution to monitoring newbies; but I sometimes disagree with the results. It's possible you think we should never have articles named like that and that they were just a Phlox flight of fancy. If so, please consider reviving the subject on one of the relevant forums. But if you are content (as I am) that such articles have a place here, deleting one (when it can be re-created with two clicks and a keystroke) is just a waste of time and of Wikia's history storage space. You might even turn away a potential contributor who was a bit slow in adding planned content because of being a newbie with wikis and flabbergasted at actually creating the intended page so easily. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 02:09, March 29, 2011 (UTC)

Year names without commas
There must be a way to show them. See Romania for the latest irritation! — Robin Patterson (Talk) 08:39, January 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * I can't see anything in the SMW documentation. Thurstan 10:17, January 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, I'm getting close to steeling myself for a full read of SF documentation!! Robin Patterson 04:45, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * Copied Help:Semantic forms from the MW website, and read most of it while checking links. Year numbers do have property "date" but I gather that there's a way to get them showing without commas: see the bottom of the table at "Allowed input types for data types". Robin Patterson (Talk) 09:51, February 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, that sentence makes no sense to me: "input types" are logically independant of "display options". Thurstan 07:20, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe we need another (computed) property for display: eg birth_year_display, of type "date". Thurstan 20:24, February 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, County Sligo shows that we haven't fixed the problem yet. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:20, April 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think the SMW developers have given as a display option yet (have we asked them?). Until they do, maybe we should display "date" rather than "year". Thurstan 21:15, April 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * I wasn't aware that we needed to be (re-)given a display option. The thing used to work, months ago, and there must be other sites that collect days, months, and years but sometimes want to display just the year, so I'm confident that any lack of the right display option would have been noticed and fixed before now. Years display OK in our infoboxes; why not in all queries, I wonder. You have more proficiency with "types"; could you be the one to initiate a request to the SMW mailing list? -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:38, April 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I am not about to request anything from anybody. I feel like I am just an observer of this issue. I have suggested my solution above. What I have seen is:
 * In the original design, when Phlox discovered that the years were displaying with commas (and that there was no display option to suppress the commas for type "number"), he changed the "year" fields to type "date", which did display properly.
 * After the last upgrade, the forms now gave a full "date-chooser" for the year fields, and always stuff a full date into the "year" fields. So every time a form was used to edit, the date fields broke. So we changed the data type for "year" back to "number", which gives us the "comma" problem.
 * If you think that "other sites" have solved this problem, perhaps you should ask them how they did it. Thurstan 07:20, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Helping the newbies
Brilliant work finding the parents and other spouses of that recent newbie's ancestor. Cooperative genealogy at its best. Robin Patterson 04:45, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Given names
Another endless job. I added variants to Given rtol 12:33, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Grandmothers who are now 0 years of age
You understand most of the minibiography template. Now another long-dead person is now reportedly aged 0. Please look at http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Template_talk:Showfacts_biography#Errors_to_be_fixed and see whether you can stop the nonsense. Robin Patterson 04:23, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Robin Patterson 21:46, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Notes and sources and other facts
See http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Arabella_Churchill_%281648-1730%29&s=wldiff&diff=0&oldid=577890

No apparent difference. All just bullets, whether you use "new note" (as the guide says) or a normal wiki new line device such as "Enter" plus star. Is there an underlying reason why "new note" is better?

Robin Patterson 21:46, February 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, it is the "standard": as I see it, we store a list of sources in the properties, not a lot of formatting. It doesn't look the same either, because you regularly start with a "*", giving a blank line. I wouldn't have changed it if you hadn't done that, because I wouldn't have noticed. Thurstan 21:49, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

OK. But I no longer regularly start with a star since I saw that the display starts with one. It would be good if I could see these properties. You said the facts display was something to do with skins. Is there a solution? People using the "proper" skin shouldn't be discriminated against. Maybe rtol is in the same boat, because he recently said __SHOWFACTS__ has stopped working. Robin Patterson 22:22, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nobility
Thanks for reminding me that some of them have numbers. I'd better open thePeerage. Robin Patterson 00:25, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

Sensors
I put detect tabs back into sensor. rtol 06:35, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

What did Robin say? Thurstan 06:36, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Descendants breaching the 1000-character limit
I shouldn't be too worried about Elizabeth Stuart. Georg von Braunschweig-Lüneburg (1582-1641)/descendants shows FOUR errors related to the 1000-character limit. I've asked rtol to offer a comment on the template's talk page, but I'd be happy to see one from you too. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 05:21, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

Battle dates
Rather than manually categorizing battles, would we not rather use Property:Event date to automate this in info battle? rtol 19:48, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

Worth a look: we will need a "participants" property for the nations involved. Thurstan 21:02, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

On second thought, I don't see the gain: if we are copying the account over from wikipedia, the categories should come too. Thurstan 21:48, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

List of Belgian Monarchs v Monarchs of Belgium
I object to the move. The Wikipedia standard is poor. List is redundant. Few of these monarchs were Belgian. A number of Belgians who were monarchs are not on the list (as they were not monarchs of Belgium).

I deliberately used Monarchs of Belgium which is concise and roughly correct. rtol 06:20, March 9, 2011 (UTC)

I don't follow your logic: the OED defines "Belgian" as "of or pertaining to Belgium", so "Belgian Monarchs" means "Monarchs of or pertaining to Belgium", ie "Monarchs of Belgium". Nationality has nothing to do with it. Thurstan 03:22, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

Now look up "sophistry" in the OED. rtol 08:23, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

Table of Contents
When I used to add tocright to a person-page, it used to fit neatly under the right-hand side on the mini-bio, filling some otherwise useless white space. In my latest article, John Reid Mackintosh (1869-1953), it has decided to sit under the ad, leaving a horrid white desert of more white space before the Children heading.

As you seem to know how to improve the person page (if recent changes involving for template(?) are any guide), please see if you can get tocright (which is in there but apparently ineffectual) tucked in so that it displays where it used to, nicely filling some of the white space and not creating any more. It could perhaps be an integral part of the minibio, in a new line.

--- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 12:33, March 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * No, I do not approve: I believe our standard (dating back to the "/info" page days) is "NOTOC": you seem to have suddenly decided (without discussion) that we need a TOC. I don't agree, I think it is unnecessary for pages that don't have lots of text paragraphs. Thurstan 20:57, March 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * All the pages I look at (eg Christina Apel (1876-1928)) is sits under the infobox, pushing everything down. If we need a TOC, it should be a "left" one, like a wikipedia article with an info box. Thurstan 21:06, March 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * OK, it seems to need more discussion. (I had a feeling that the NOTOC was introduced without discussion.) But the sitting under the infobox seems very recent; could your changes to form:person have moved it? --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 02:19, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Gratitude
Thank you so much for creating the disambiguation pages for my Vermont localities. I will work on the specific pages soon. KAmbrose 00:06, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

SMW breaking again
As you may have noticed, fewer things are working today. Missing or bad are tabs, sensor pages, generations 3+ of descendant pages; and there's at least one thing wrong with the mini-bio on Charlemagne_(747-814). I've not tried to create an article since waking up. User:rtol messaged me to see if I might contact Wikia. You can see my considered reply on his talk page. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 02:37, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

I think the main thing that has broken is that SMW has forgotten what types the properties are, so things default to being links: that's why the tabs are broken (will try to fix). The fix is to resave the property. However, if we were to do that to the ancestors and dependants, it would break them, because it is a "type error" that is broken now. I notice that the "long name" is displaying with "_" instead of " " in the mini-bio. Thurstan 03:39, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

Bradman
Hey, Sport, WARGS data seems to be more detailed than what you have been using (e.g. definite death year for Bradnam), and of course it's set out in a way that makes FP page creation from a child page fairly easy. Link at Donald George Bradman (1908-2001)/tree. --- Robin Patterson (Talk to me) 12:14, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I was inspired by the WARGS data (which I am incorporating). However, I have more dates and places then WARGS does. Thurstan 19:57, March 22, 2011 (UTC)

CAPITALISING SURNAMES!
Hi Thurstan,

The main reason that I always capitalise surnames is that while searching for certain surnames, a small collection of capitals is easy to spot in "scanning" mode, among all of the lower case text. The other reason is because quite often, a child receives the surname of its mother (or another important distaff ancestor) as one of their middle names - e.g. Albert Leo Vautin COFFISON - giving the clue that the child's mother's maiden was probably VAUTIN. However, if the paternal surname is always capitalised, there is no doubt about the correct surname of such a child. I have found that another surname occurring among an ancestor's Christian names can sometimes be confusing to newbies (having seen this same person's name later reproduced as Albert Leo Vautin-Coffison), thereby causing further mayhem down the track.

As a researcher of more than 40 years, I am truly sorry to learn that capitalising surnames is frowned upon and/or actively discouraged on your pages (sigh). If you look at the above paragraph, the surnames COFFISON and VAUTIN stand out immediately, removing any lingering doubts about a person's correct surname! If the majority of the wording was in lower case (except the odd capital to begin a sentence or to acknowledge proper nouns), readers must plough through every single line to discover what surmames are being presented in the text (more sighs).

Having said all that, I understand and respect your rules, and therefore (reluctantly) comply...

Thank you sincerely for allowing me to present my case anyway.

Dottles44

Deleting categories, or not
http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Special:AllPages&namespace=14&from=Ancestors_of_William_Allen_Shade_%281968%29&to=Arlington_National_Cemetery includes: But "Thurstan (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Category:Ancestry from the West Indies" (not a country)"
 * Ancestry from Abney
 * Ancestry from Africa
 * Ancestry from Bohemia
 * Ancestry from Byzantium
 * Ancestry from Europe
 * Ancestry from Ireland
 * Ancestry from Jersey
 * Ancestry from North Ireland
 * Ancestry from the Isle of Man

If one of my ancestors was described as having ancestors from the West Indies, I'd want to put him or her in that category, especially if that's all that we knew about them. Several of my Crawfurd relatives were described on a family tree as having died in The West Indies. No other clue. Being "not a country" should be no bar to being named as the location for a category. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:08, April 17, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, you can recreate it if you like: just don't use AncestryCountry until it is fixed to use the "the" in "the West Indies". Thurstan 06:33, April 17, 2011 (UTC)

Creating Trees
Hello,

I hope you don't mind me asking but I have started updating the pages I made a while ago to the standard forms which I am finding very easy to use.

However, I cannot find out how to create the 'trees' which shows the ancestors of the person featured in the page. Could you please explain how to do so?

Thank you very much, Cv-s 08:10, July 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * There are 2 steps to the process:
 * Create the tree page: Philip Ascot Tivey (1915-1991)/tree has the standard contents.
 * To have the "tabs" display, create the "sensor" page: like Philip Ascot Tivey (1915-1991)/sensor.
 * I hope this quick note suffices, if not ask again. Note that if the "/sensor" already exists, then you have to resave it after you create the "/tree" so that it gets noticed by the system. Thurstan 11:00, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Great, I tried it for Gillian Tivey and it's all working perfectly. I'll work on adding it to my other pages and then work on descendants etc. which I should be able to grasp now.
 * Thanks for explaining. Cv-s 11:39, July 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * My suggested order is to create "/tree", then "/descendants" (if required), then "/sensor". Thurstan 11:42, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Green Valley, Shawano County, Wisconsin
Thanks for catching that. I had no idea there was more than one in Wisconsin. I've fixed them all. Lanica 01:33, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Our "standard" is to use Wikipedia page names for places, so if you look them up in WIkipedia as you go, you find the ambiguities and the spelling errors. Thurstan 01:36, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Images
Hello, hopefully you don't mind me asking again but when I add images with the form-person style, the image comes up but so does some unwanted numbers/letters. (Please see Louisa Blunt (1878-1971)). I don't mind too much but it looks a little messy and if there's a way around it, could you please tell me.

Thank you, Cv-s 08:02, July 20, 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about asking me for help. What is going on here is that because of the design of this template, you don't specify the "File:" prefix for the image, and you don't get to specify any other parameters (caption, sizes, etc), just the file name. I have fixed Louisa Blunt (1878-1971): I hope you are happy with this. Thurstan 09:01, July 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that looks much better. I'll remember that when adding my next photos. Cv-s 10:17, July 20, 2011 (UTC)

Changing "Settled" to "Established"
Are you aware that Andrei has been making a lot of changes that seem to eliminate the "settled" concept from articles? In a recent one, Grafton, New South Wales, he's just plain wrong, according to the text of the article. I don't like it, because even if correct it removes a distinction valuable for genealogy, but if it has your blessing I'll go easy. -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 01:02, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I am disinclined to diverge too far from Wikipedia, because every change we make to a Wikipedia category name make more work when we copy the articles from Wikipedia, so I do not agree. Thurstan 01:05, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not suggesting any change to WP category names, and I generally agree with you on the value of WP. I'm concerned about the deletion of more genealogy-specific additional categories. Have you looked at http://familypedia.wikia.com/index.php?title=Category:Grafton,_New_South_Wales&s=wldiff&diff=0&oldid=215035 ? -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 03:57, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I expressed myself very badly: I don't disagree with you, I disagree with Andrei. I was expressing my disapproval of his changes to the Wikipedia categorization. Thurstan 04:01, August 9, 2011 (UTC)


 * Forum:Settlements and establishments now under construction, with several paragraphs still to be written. Could be done by the end of the evening, after which responses from you and others are welcome. (The Grafton example opened a can of cute little worms, illustrating one disadvantage of copying from WP; I mentioned it to Andrei but didn't reproduce it on the forum.) -- Robin Patterson (Talk) 05:11, August 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Thurstan, I'd just like to say that your generous edits and additions to my previous articles (eg Betty Blanchette) are not going unnoticed. It is very appreciated and I will try to fix up more of my articles soon. Cv-s 11:13, August 14, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're welcome: I am trying to do various generic fix ups. I notice that you still have a problem with Betty Blanchette (1919-1941): after dying in 1941, she marries in 1945. Thurstan 21:00, August 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see how that's a problem! I didn't notice, but now I've changed it to a more likely 1941. Cv-s 10:52, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Semantic assistance on Giki?
Hello there. I was advised by Robin to catch you in a good mood, so please ensure your emotions are appropriately positive before continuing to read. ;)

Please see this discussion. I have investigated further and determined that the issue is with w:c:government:Template:Inauguration. I set up a test page here, where every instance of 2 was originally  and every instance of 4 was. Substituting these expressions for the corresponding literal numbers triggers an error about an unexpected <.

I noticed something on the talk pages here about Wikia limiting the semantic query depth... Is that the problem here? Is there any way around it?

Also, I originally wrote that template but cannot recall what the #a means. Maybe you could remind me?

Thanks for any advice. --Jesdisciple (talk) 23:31, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Hi!
I am new to the wiki, but not new to Genealogy! Am I allowed to create pages about my ancestors?

Thanks!

-G4 G4 G4♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫Happy People! 21:04, August 25, 2011 (UTC)


 * Go for it, that's what it is here for. Please follow our page name conventions to avoid creating duplicates, and note that the "forms" only work with the Firefox 3 browser. Thurstan 21:57, August 25, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry!
I am extremely sorry! I will correct my mistakes immedietely, and not make them in the future. So sorry!

Thanks for the help...

G4 G4 G4♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫Happy People! 00:11, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the warning. Also, are you the top contributor? Who founded this wiki, and are they still active? (Sorry for bombarding you with questions, but I'm one of those people. And, It could help me edit better in the future.

G4 G4 G4♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫Happy People! 00:51, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * I am the human on top of the list at Familypedia:Contributors/Edit count, just below a bot. I believe that User:IFaqeer was the founder, his first edit is in 2004 and his last in 2007 (I assume he moved on to other things, rather than died). I suggest you talk to User:Robin Patterson, who has been around almost since the beginning, and is still active. Thurstan 00:59, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Forget about what I asked before, but now, how do you create the "Form" format on a genealogical profile of a person?

-G4 G4 G4♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫Happy People! 21:40, August 26, 2011 (UTC)


 * First up, because of an unresolved problem with the software, the only browser that works with the form is Firefox Version 3 (I noticed you destroy another page because you didn't believe me last time I told you that). If you are not using that browser, see Forum:Data entry without using Form:Person. To create a new page, just go to Form:Person and enter the page name into the box. There are a lot more words at Help:Starting pages for people, places, or surnames/Guidance. Thurstan 21:46, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Congrats
Congrats on the wiki having 100,000 pages. Without you, this would never have happened.

-G4 G4 G4♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫♥♦♪♫Happy People! 16:06, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, you are too kind. Thurstan 21:47, August 29, 2011 (UTC)

Pongau
vom = von dem = of the

in this case, though, it's a typo rtol 05:41, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you: my German is almost non-existant. Thurstan 06:18, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Newbie
Hi Thurstan

I am still a newbie and hoping that Familypedia will create interest amongst my family members to contribute. I edited the lifespan of a ggg grandfather. I can do more editing and create more pages.

Learning how to do it at the moment

First Attemp
Hi Thurstan

Trying my first attempt. It is not quite right

Page display quirks?
I've just seen some "facts" on a page, below the category and spotlights etc. Looked quite promising.

But can you see what I see on http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Avison_%28surname%29? The Wikia-imposed selection of article-starts above the real content includes Ethel (whom I knew personally) and Frances, each of whose articles seems to say "Had a woollen mill in Yorkshire and was well off. His two eldest sons were sent to" - text that belongs with Andrew, born in 1834.

-- Robin Patterson (Talk) 03:12, August 31, 2011 (UTC)

I don't see that "logged in" because I am still using the old skin, but I do see that when I am not logged in. Talking about surname Avison: in my database I have some NZers, Eliza Avison (1863-1942), no parents given, who married John William Watts (1861-1929). Thurstan 04:06, August 31, 2011 (UTC)